JF 2/9

[C1erArt]

Out for a couple of hours late afternoon with the DW. Lapped challenge and thunderbolt. They were both in pristine shape. River shot was a little scraped off and Floyds was a lot narrower than it normally is. A nice sunny warm afternoon, but the snow wasn’t at all slushy. Overall pretty quiet.

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

Might hit JF tomorrow before the rains make things worse. Any intel on how it is holding up since last week? Guessing no coverage in glades at present.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 hour ago, Ski2Live Live2Ski said:

Might hit JF tomorrow before the rains make things worse. Any intel on how it is holding up since last week? Guessing no coverage in glades at present.

Rain not rains 

[EdBacon]

Looks like tubing is out at JF. They never set up any guns there. One Park is still in opening day mode. Just a handful of rails. Still no jumps up. Conditions were bad last weekend. Icy and scratchy. 

With BB park and Freedom both officially gone, along with the plaza, this looks to be the real end of the BB parks era. 

Question now is can Vail run JF/BB as tiny family hills. It's somehow still more crowded than I've ever seen it. Although that might just be bad lift management. Usually one or more lifts aren't spinning, even on busy weekends.

Edited February 17, 2022 by EdBacon

[Kyle]

I’m not a business major by any means but something tells me tubing makes a fuck ton of money for PA resorts and it seems downright stupid to not even open it this season, especially at JF that has a sizeable tubing area. 

[enjoralas]

It does require a fair number of people to run though, assuming you run it like Blue with an attendant manning every lane. Certainly you get enough customers to pay them many times over, but that doesn’t matter if they can’t get the bell.

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

With difficulties they are having hiring nationwide I can easily see Vail making the call that the income stream tubing at JF could generate is insignificant compared to the issues created by lack of lift operators and snow makers at more prominent places. 

I am puzzled by their taking away BB's parks and extended season while announcing plans to upgrade their lifts though. Why throw money at a place while taking away the few marketing appeals it had. Without parks, I can't see who is going to BB over larger places around the corner for newer (still slow) lifts.  

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ski2Live Live2Ski

[JFskiDan]

Vail is trying to run all of their resorts from a big chair in Colorado.  They lack understanding of local markets.  Tubing is huge in the Poconos.  I get having labor issues, but they are missing out on a huge market.  They left a whole big bag of money on the table, then slid it over to Blue Mountain, and said "here, we dont want this.  But if you know anybody that wants to buy a season pass to 40 usually overcrowded mountains with lift and snowmaking issues, let us know, ok?"

@EdBacon i cant for the life of me figure out where all of the people are coming from that ski JFBB either.  I have never seen crowds like this, and it seems they are giving less of a product from when i skied there.  2 years ago i would have bet money they would at some point quit running BB.  

Peak may have had their issues as well, but they were never shy on running lifts to keep lines down, or snowmaking at every opportunity early season.  

[RidgeRacer]

I'm convinced that our beloved nightmare dream has become a circus now because vail decided to shutter BB Park. Damn you vail. Damn you.

[trackbiker]

1 hour ago, JFskiDan said:

 

@EdBacon i cant for the life of me figure out where all of the people are coming from that ski JFBB either.  I have never seen crowds like this, and it seems they are giving less of a product from when i skied there.  2 years ago i would have bet money they would at some point quit running BB. 

The lines came from selling 71% more Epic passes than last season. Anyone who bought a pass in Southeast PA and New Jersey/New York area and aren't going on a trip out West or to New England are showing up at JF/BB on the weekend.

True; there's global labor shortage. But Vail isn't paying the going rate at any of their ski areas nation wide. While every business around has had to increase wages to get people to work for them Vail didn't increase wages until the season was half over and that was too late. I guess it wasn't in their algorithm budget out there in Broomfield. It also wasn't in their algorithm that if you increase sales by 71% you also have to increase capacity.

[Benm]

11 minutes ago, trackbiker said:

Anyone who bought a pass in Southeast PA and New Jersey/New York area and aren't going on a trip out West or to New England are showing up at JF/BB on the weekend

if i remember correctly, whatever flavor of epic pass that was basically a season pass to JFBB was also cheaper than neighboring resorts' season passes. i could be wrong.

[Barb]

https://www.skimag.com/news/vail-resorts-record-ski-passes-overcrowding/?utm_source=ski+magazine&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=8db3dd42-0f9f-412a-90e9-f910517a3fde

 

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/02/14/aspen-announces-surprise-raise/

 

I can’t find the Arapahoe Basin article right now but that one outlines how they lowered the number of season passes sold to preserve the skier experience. The current Vail business model is not sustainable. I read how they eliminated a lot of on mountain managerial positions and centralized it to corporate HQ in Broomfield. So they are applying a one size fits all model to snowmaking, terrain opening etc. I feel if Vail insists on paying slave wages that are a joke for mountain towns, they need to provide some sort of employee housing or stipend. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

11 minutes ago, Barb said:

https://www.skimag.com/news/vail-resorts-record-ski-passes-overcrowding/?utm_source=ski+magazine&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=8db3dd42-0f9f-412a-90e9-f910517a3fde

 

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/02/14/aspen-announces-surprise-raise/

 

I can’t find the Arapahoe Basin article right now but that one outlines how they lowered the number of season passes sold to preserve the skier experience. The current Vail business model is not sustainable. I read how they eliminated a lot of on mountain managerial positions and centralized it to corporate HQ in Broomfield. So they are applying a one size fits all model to snowmaking, terrain opening etc. I feel if Vail insists on paying slave wages that are a joke for mountain towns, they need to provide some sort of employee housing or stipend. 

Abasin is also replacing the Lenawee triple with a six pack over the summer.  That will be a giant improvement on busy days.  Abasins COO Al, has a fantastic blog as well. 

 

http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Schif]

I think it's pretty interesting that they have snowtubing open and operating at Keystone but not at JFBB. 

I wonder if they are assuming that people who are staying at a resort will want to snow tube and that people won't go on a day trip to snow tube. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Schif

[Kyle]

3 hours ago, RidgeRacer said:

I'm convinced that our beloved nightmare dream has become a circus now because vail decided to shutter BB Park. Damn you vail. Damn you.

I don’t really have a horse in the race here but I’d love to see the park go back to sidewinder, that jump line they had used to be one of the best in PA. NMDW is nice, but it seemed like everything was too packed in there last year. 

[antman12]

37 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I don’t really have a horse in the race here but I’d love to see the park go back to sidewinder, that jump line they had used to be one of the best in PA. NMDW is nice, but it seemed like everything was too packed in there last year. 

Anytime I get an excuse to post this picture I took I’ll use it. 
 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 hour ago, Schif said:

I think it's pretty interesting that they have snowtubing open and operating at Keystone but not at JFBB. 

I wonder if they are assuming that people who are staying at a resort will want to snow tube and that people won't go on a day trip to snow tube. 

Keystone is an actual resort and JFBB is not...

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

40 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I don’t really have a horse in the race here but I’d love to see the park go back to sidewinder, that jump line they had used to be one of the best in PA. NMDW is nice, but it seemed like everything was too packed in there last year. 

Most of us would be happy to see nightmare to dreamweaver go back to a regular ski run. 

[antman12]

Just now, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Most of us would be happy to see nightmare to dreamweaver go back to a regular ski run. 

And most would bitch and moan regardless of what other trail the terrain park went on.

[Schif]

8 minutes ago, antman12 said:

And most would bitch and moan regardless of what other trail the terrain park went on.

My only complaint is that they don't have a halfpipe

[enjoralas]

I’d rather keep Sidewinder as a ski trail than get Nightweaver back. I love both options, but they need a full size park and would rather they take Nightweaver

[antman12]

3 minutes ago, Schif said:

My only complaint is that they don't have a halfpipe

Toast and I were talking about this on the lift last night. Problem is they take sooooooooooo much snow.

[Schif]

6 minutes ago, antman12 said:

Toast and I were talking about this on the lift last night. Problem is they take sooooooooooo much snow.

They do, and they are rarely used to their full potential and they require you to have a very specialized attachment to one of your cats. All practical thinking says that they are more hassle than they are worth. When I was watching the olympics I was really thinking to myself, where do these riders even go to train? I can't think of many mountains that still have one. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 minute ago, Schif said:

They do, and they are rarely used to their full potential and they require you to have a very specialized attachment to one of your cats. All practical thinking says that they are more hassle than they are worth. When I was watching the olympics I was really thinking to myself, where do these riders even go to train? I can't think of many mountains that still have one. 

Most of these olympians went to ski academies in high school at places like Stratton. 

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

JF 100% open but glades too thin to be worth skiing. No lines whatsoever. Nice carveable surface.