Alpinezone: Poor Picked-On KMart?

[Ski]

So does anyone else think it's cool that a little ski area spends a chunk of their budget to lay down some man-made snow to open earlier than the giant Killington?

 

Am I alone in thinking it's awesome that they then stick that in the face of a ski area that was feeling over-taxed by their state so threatened to try to secede from Vermont and become New Hampshire?

 

For years, KMart opened a tiny patch that involved jumping into a truck to get to the lift service, just so they could say they were first to open. But when a ski area in Connecticut does it, some people are "amused" by their "claim" to beat Killington and it's not "fair".

 

Poor, poor KMart, I say. I APPLAUD little ski areas that rush to open and cause a stir. How great is it that KMart had to change their early season marketing and drop their own claims of first to open?

 

"Well, for years we rushed to open a little stretch of early season snow in order to say we were the first to open in the East. But since a little ski area has been beating us to it, 'first to open' claims no longer count."

 

So PA has steeper terrain than KMart and CT opens earlier. And some people have a really hard time accepting those facts...

[Glenn]

Small mountains are great. They are where the locals will spend their time. I wouldn't make the trip to CT to ride before K-mart opens, heck I don't even go to shawnee so I can ride first in the pocono's and it's closer to me than my home mountain is. When your home mountain IS the one with those advantages, it really shows the small mountains are where the PASSION is. That says alot. Bear Creek is a perfect example of a passionate resort, and it shows. People LOVE Bear Creek, because despite their shortcomings in size, and region, they really do care about the sport, and the people.

 

The larger resorts are concerned with the money. If having quality runs means money, thats what they will focus on. Obviously opening early isn't cost effective for K-mart, so they lose out to a smaller hill, who cares about early season riding.

 

Is it cool... very. Is it really sticking it to K-mart... I'm not quite sure.

[Papasteeze]

I APPLAUD little ski areas that rush to open and cause a stir.

34987[/snapback]

 

Mice that Roar!! Love it!

[Shadows]

The larger resorts are concerned with the money. If having quality runs means money, thats what they will focus on.

34990[/snapback]

 

*cough* CamelBack *cough*

Edited October 10, 2005 by Shadows

[skidude]

*cough* CamelBack *cough*

35025[/snapback]

 

*cough* everywhere but shawnee *cough*

[Glenn]

In this area... alpine, shawnee, bear creek, tanglewood, etc. Further north places like camelback would be considered small.

[DMC]

For years, KMart opened a tiny patch that involved jumping into a truck to get to the lift service, just so they could say they were first to open. But when a ski area in Connecticut does it, some people are "amused" by their "claim" to beat Killington and it's not "fair".

34987[/snapback]

 

Whatever anybodies argument is about it - or whatever reason they did it... I certainly rushed up to Killington ever October from the they had skking on Upper Cascade to when we had to ride the pickup to the glades...

 

But saying it was just a tiny patch isn't really correct.. It was usually a couple trails and generally the conditions were really good...

 

Please don't get mad at me for dissagreeing with you... It's really just my observation.

[AlpineZone]

So PA has steeper terrain than KMart and CT opens earlier. And some people have a really hard time accepting those facts...

34987[/snapback]

Wow. Talk about trolling, complete with a call-out to me directly in the subject line.

 

So to your comments above. PA has steeper terrain than Kmart? Don't know if these figures are 100% accurate, but according to this thread on AZ, Outer Limits is steeper, as are many other runs in the East. The problem with what Denton states on their Web site is that Avalanche is 66 degrees and also the steepest in the East, both of which I would argue is far from "fact".

 

Regarding Woodbury and K-Mart, if you read my post, I simply stated it was not a fair comparison. If you think it is, then fine. It's just a matter of opinion, a concept that you seem to struggle with...

[Ski]

Woodbury's terrain was called "a tiny patch", when in fact it was top to bottom, completely lift serviced skiing.

 

In the past, Woodbury also had a "build your own hit" policy, with shovels scattered about.

 

Is rushing to beat KMart open "sticking it" to them? I like to think so. I mean, wouldn't it have seemed lame for KMart to be advertising the 'Beast in the East First to Open', when they weren't? And who ever heard of Woodbury before they started beating KMart open?

 

Good for Woodbury.

[sibhusky]

So to your comments above. PA has steeper terrain than Kmart? Don't know if these figures are 100% accurate, but according to this thread on AZ, Outer Limits is steeper, as are many other runs in the East. The problem with what Denton states on their Web site is that Avalanche is 66 degrees and also the steepest in the East, both of which I would argue is far from "fact".

 

That list of slopes was originally posted on Epic. The triple diamond mentioned for Denton is NOT the hill that they claim is the steepest. The triple is "Extreme". The steepest one is "Avalanche". And personally, until someone from Denton gets involved, I think pulling up topomaps is crazy as topomaps are not as accurate as being there. For one thing, Denton could build up the slope with snow to create more of a drop if they like.

 

The only way to solve the Denton issue is for someone to visit Denton with their "slopeometer" or whatever and measure it for us.

[Sno Mountain Skier]

Ok, to settle this. I will ask my friend if when he gets his license in decmber if he wants to go up to denton. He told me last year, if we ever wanted to go ski somwhere new that he would drive. So im gonna go up there and see it as in comparison to white lightnin.

[Ski]

I simply stated it was not a fair comparison.

 

No you didn't. This is what you said:

 

"Depends on where you live, I guess. It's usually only a small patch (not full vertical). It's a bit amusing how they claim to "beat" Killington some years though. Killington's new policy is to only open when they have top-to-bottom terrain. It's not a fair comparison..."

 

You said it was only a claim that they beat KMart open and that amused you.

 

I said it was a fact. My brother-in-law took his two boys to Woobury for their opener last season. They rode the chair and had a blast. No pick-up trucks, no hiking. They spent the day skiing at Woodbury, while KMart was still closed.

 

It's not just my "opinion" that Woodbury opened first. It does appear, though, that it is your "opinion" that skiing a place that has only a couple hundred vert doesn't count as skiing.

[Ski]

Ok, to settle this. I will ask my friend  if when he gets his license in decmber if he wants to go up to denton. He told me last year, if we ever wanted to go ski somwhere new that he would drive. So im gonna go up there and see it as in  comparison to white lightnin.

35065[/snapback]

 

Want something done right? Send a Montager!

[AlpineZone]

You said it was only a claim that they beat KMart open and that amused you.

It does amuse me. So they sometimes open first...that's great. Hopefully, they see a good ROI for the rights to use that marketing angle. It would be interesting to know how many folks hit Woodbury based on it, versus waiting for areas like Belleayre, Killington, BW, or even Hunter to open. My point is it's not the same product so the comparison is a little flawed. But, you're right - first open is first open, and Killington did use that marketing tactic for years. Perhaps the low ROI is why they don't anymore...?

 

It does appear, though, that it is your "opinion" that skiing a place that has only a couple hundred vert doesn't count as skiing.

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What makes you say that? I have nothing against small areas, and in fact ski a lot of them every season - Sundown, Butternut, Catamount. I also plan to hit Mohawk many times this season as well now that I live only 25 minutes away. I don't visit sub-600' vert hills when there are larger options within an hour's drive, but these feeder hills are great for families and getting kids started. My daughter will be 4 next season and I plan to enroll her in a ski school at a local hill.

 

I still don't really know why you felt the need to call me out here...

[Ski]

You've come to the conclusion that Woodbury's early opening is "great".

 

My job is now done.

 

Eh, but would you like some tips on teaching 4-year-old's? I'd be most happy to share what I've experienced.

[AlpineZone]

Eh, but would you like some tips on teaching 4-year-old's? I'd be most happy to share what I've experienced.

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Sure. Fire away. I'd love to get feedback on the best ways to introduce her.

[poconoceancity]

Sure. Fire away. I'd love to get feedback on the best ways to introduce her.

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Get her out there soon, she's getting old.

[Ski]

Get her out there soon, she's getting old.

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Ha, well, yeah!

 

The Kid Ski Apple Rise system is the starting point for all parents. The tip-lock, leash, kiddie lift, and stick are a must. Don't waste money on the plastic skis...plus non-metal edge skis aren't slope legal anyway.

 

 

http://www.kid-ski.com/

 

Grab her a pair of Atomic Race 5's in 70cm's, or a comparable ski. Rear entry boots are fine for the first season, but she'll do much better with front entries by next season.

 

Buy a gross of heat packs. Buy a gross of Skittles or other candy she likes. They are for the top of the lift, before you start down.

 

With tip locks (don't bother with the wedge bar, it's ungainly and too wide for most little girls), she will be able to ski down any slope you are able to go with her. Make sure to unclip them and let her cruise around your carpeted living room.

 

The idea behind a ski leash is for you to turn the kids hips, so they are making the turns. It's not to be used simply as a break. But the first few times out, IT IS A BREAK AND MEANT FOR CONTROLLING SPEED.

 

The kiddie lift allows you to pick her up and place her on the chairlift. It's an awesome piece of gear. My 5-year-old could ski diamond as a 4-year-old, but is still two years from being able to jump up on a lift. I even used to stop with 100 yards or so of skiable terrain left, pack away her leash, then pick her up by her kiddie lift (again, this is the harness used to carry and lift a child) and ski to the lift line.

 

No poles for kids, of course. They get in the way and the kids use them as weapons or bug appendages.

 

So pick a sunny warm day. Put the ski stick in one hand and pick her up with the other. Skate to the beginner lift. You hold the handle of the kiddie lift all the way up and she doesn't touch the snow when getting off until you've cleared the lift area.

 

Put the stick between her legs and hold it like you were going to paddle a canoe. Push off and she'll ski down next to you. Oh, and while she's doing this, check to see if she's awake. Kids are totally under your control while on a stick and don't have to be awake. My daughter skied WAY before she walked.

 

How strong are your hip flexers? Trust me, they'll be really strong by January. You'll be snow plowing next to her.

 

Repeat 30 times.

 

Love it.

 

Then it gets more fun.

 

Put the stick in your car and grab the leash. You'll still be snow plowing, but now she'll have some freedom and responsibilty. She will turn in the direction she chooses. Have her lean forward a bit and put her hands on her thighs. Have her press her right hand on her right thigh and she'll find she turns left.

 

This is when she'll get it. This is a MAGIC time.

 

Gently help her turn by steering the leash, just like a horse.

 

The leash tucks into a front pouch on her belly. It's easy to take out and then pop back in. I always stopped with enough room to put it away and then get enough speed to ski directly to the lift line while holding her off the snow.

 

Repeat 100 times.

 

Then unclip the tip clips.

 

Let her turn. Let some slack in the leash.

 

Repeat 100 times.

 

Then let her take the leash off.

 

 

BTW, if your ski area has NASTAR, take her down it with the leash. Let the people know in the start shack that you'll be tripping the wand with her. Shout "right, right, right", or "left, left, left."

 

----

 

 

I'm sure I'll have more to add. Tons of stuff. But does this help?

Edited October 10, 2005 by ski999

[AlpineZone]

Thanks. Looking forward to getting her out there...

[poconoceancity]

ski999,

 

that advice should be made into an instructional video.

[skidude]

ski999,

 

that advice should be made into an instructional video.

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Cept you probably need to know how to ski well...which is something most people can't do who have lil children with them in the pocs

[Ski]

The better the snow---meaning more groomed and not icy---the easier it is. Even someone that's just barely a blue square skier will do just fine. Powder days are bad, while slush days are the worst. Snow builds up in the wedge and you'll have to keep picking them up and lifting them over their plowed up snow.

[AtomicSkier]

Ski999 has created a skiing beast (His daughter). To see her ski is really amazing, for how young she is. She even tips her ski on edge...

[skidude]

Ski999 has created a skiing beast (His daughter).  To see her ski is really amazing, for how young she is.  She even tips her ski on edge...

35292[/snapback]

She already has more angles than Jeff will every have...And by the end of this season, she will probably have twice the angles I have (not that thats so challenging)

[AtomicSkier]

She already has more angles than Jeff will every have...And by the end of this season, she will probably have twice the angles  I have (not that thats so challenging)

35293[/snapback]

 

Keep on talking boy....Keep it up...