2024/2025

[C1erArt]

Monday 12/16

Warmish and soft. They groomed One Park and left Demattes un groomed. Very quiet today. 
 

Guns are set up on Exhibition ready to go. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

How’s Floyd’s?

[EdBacon]

Round-the-clock snowmaking should start Thursday night. 

Edited December 17, 2024 by EdBacon

[C1erArt]

16 hours ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

How’s Floyd’s?

Didn’t head over there, but apparently challenge is open today

[EdBacon]

Huge whales on Rivershot. Looks like they want that open by New Years. Not sure how the next week of rain and warm temps is going to impact things though. JF is only about 50% open. 

Was just thinking about this today, but Vail has a serious handicap operating JF as the main hill in the snowmaking dept. The old management made the snowmaking investments at Big Boulder, not JF. Most trails at JF do not have permanent snowmaking systems installed and require dragging portable guns into place. But they don't have enough portable guns to cover the whole mountain at once, so that means making snow on one or two trails at a time, opening those, then moving to the next trail. But when the weather turns it means you either delay more trail openings and resurface already open terrain, or you let conditions deteriorate and push for trail count. BB didn't have a problem with this since they installed more snowmaking capacity to build the terrain parks 10-20 years ago. So either Vail spends to put in a modern snowmaking system at JF or they keep playing catch up while under-utilizing the snowmaking system at BB.

Edited December 27, 2024 by EdBacon

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Is big Boulder 100%?  Even bear creek has over 20 runs open. 

[JFskiDan]

1 hour ago, EdBacon said:

Huge whales on Rivershot. Looks like they want that open by New Years. Not sure how the next week of rain and warm temps is going to impact things though. JF is only about 50% open. 

Was just thinking about this today, but Vail has a serious handicap operating JF as the main hill in the snowmaking dept. The old management made the snowmaking investments at Big Boulder, not JF. Most trails at JF do not have permanent snowmaking systems installed and require dragging portable guns into place. But they don't have enough portable guns to cover the whole mountain at once, so that means making snow on one or two trails at a time, opening those, then moving to the next trail. But when the weather turns it means you either delay more trail openings and resurface already open terrain, or you let conditions deteriorate and push for trail count. BB didn't have a problem with this since they installed more snowmaking capacity to build the terrain parks 10-20 years ago. So either Vail spends to put in a modern snowmaking system at JF or they keep playing catch up while under-utilizing the snowmaking system at BB.

There used to be a ton of old school portable snowmaking equipment at frost. Vail probably auctioned it off with the old chairs. BB had a ton of portable fan guns that i think would make their way over to frost at some point, but peak was way more aggressive with snowmaking at frost. For years i skied there, i feel like east was open around jan 1st more years than not. 
keep in mind, peak sold season passes and day passes. Getting the mountain open asap increased day pass sales. Vail sells season passes, and thats pretty much all they care about. I said it earlier this year. They drag their feet making snow. Passes have already been purchased. Aggressive snowmaking at either resort doesn't make their wallets any fatter. 

[EdBacon]

2 hours ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

Is big Boulder 100%?  Even bear creek has over 20 runs open. 

It's not but its more open as a % than JF. 

The only portable guns left at JF are the little tripod mounted guns. Didn't see any of the portable fan guns. 

They are going VERY slowly with snowmaking. They had dragged the tripod guns over to T-bolt so I guess we can expect that sometime in early-mid January. 

[RidgeRacer]

JF and BB had were both lined with fan guns (all trails) that cranked out serious snow I wanna say around 2010ish.  But (if I remember correctly) When peak resorts made the purchase of hunter, Mt snow and some other places in NE.. Peak shipped a good chunk of the fan guns up north (I'm fairly certain hunter got the majority of them). I think they still have some...idk (it's been a minute) but they had to revert to the old school portables again after that on a good chunk of terrain. That particular purchase didn't help JFBB from snowmaking perspective.

[EdBacon]

1 hour ago, RidgeRacer said:

JF and BB had were both lined with fan guns (all trails) that cranked out serious snow I wanna say around 2010ish.  But (if I remember correctly) When peak resorts made the purchase of hunter, Mt snow and some other places in NE.. Peak shipped a good chunk of the fan guns up north (I'm fairly certain hunter got the majority of them). I think they still have some...idk (it's been a minute) but they had to revert to the old school portables again after that on a good chunk of terrain. That particular purchase didn't help JFBB from snowmaking perspective.

BB still kept a larger number of the better guns relative to the amount of terrain they had to cover. Probably because of the park. 

JF only has the fan guns on a few trails. Challenge, the lower headwall of Rivershot... there's some around the beginner area too. 

Edited December 28, 2024 by EdBacon

[JFskiDan]

On 12/27/2024 at 10:40 PM, EdBacon said:

BB still kept a larger number of the better guns relative to the amount of terrain they had to cover. Probably because of the park. 

JF only has the fan guns on a few trails. Challenge, the lower headwall of Rivershot... there's some around the beginner area too. 

so many moons ago, i was told by an ex snowmaker at BB, that there was no operational compressor there.  So BB is all fan guns, and i still think thats true to this day.  Thats why there should be a huge surplus of old snowmaking equipment at Frost.  i remember seeing pictures on FB.  Now, it may have been a lot to me, but i dont make snow. I just looked at Frosts trail count, and it is weak.  like What you said, its just a little over 50%.  And thats kind of sad.  They had a big cold spell, but its apparent they go at a pace that is akin to a snail.  Personally i dont think opening Frost first has any bearing on their slow snowmaking.   Vails business model is 180 degrees what Peaks was.  im still surprised they operate both of them.  

[EdBacon]

2 hours ago, JFskiDan said:

so many moons ago, i was told by an ex snowmaker at BB, that there was no operational compressor there.  So BB is all fan guns, and i still think thats true to this day.  Thats why there should be a huge surplus of old snowmaking equipment at Frost.  i remember seeing pictures on FB.  Now, it may have been a lot to me, but i dont make snow. I just looked at Frosts trail count, and it is weak.  like What you said, its just a little over 50%.  And thats kind of sad.  They had a big cold spell, but its apparent they go at a pace that is akin to a snail.  Personally i dont think opening Frost first has any bearing on their slow snowmaking.   Vails business model is 180 degrees what Peaks was.  im still surprised they operate both of them.  

I counted a total of 7 tripod guns on T-bolt. That was it. I didn't look over on the beginner side though, there might be more sitting over there.

Edited December 29, 2024 by EdBacon

[RidgeRacer]

5 hours ago, JFskiDan said:

so many moons ago, i was told by an ex snowmaker at BB, that there was no operational compressor there.  So BB is all fan guns, and i still think thats true to this day.  Thats why there should be a huge surplus of old snowmaking equipment at Frost.  i remember seeing pictures on FB.  Now, it may have been a lot to me, but i dont make snow. I just looked at Frosts trail count, and it is weak.  like What you said, its just a little over 50%.  And thats kind of sad.  They had a big cold spell, but its apparent they go at a pace that is akin to a snail.  Personally i dont think opening Frost first has any bearing on their slow snowmaking.   Vails business model is 180 degrees what Peaks was.  im still surprised they operate both of them.  

That's a shame actually. I remember frost being at or near capacity this week, on a few different occasions back when they were lined with the fan guns. Even a few seasons where the elevator was prime on new years day. Amazing that they seemingly haven't reinvested in snowmaking since they moved those guns up north.

[momskeeztoo]

I remember JF being first to open the entire place. Didn’t their advertising say “where the snow comes first” 

[C1erArt]

Nice day at Frost with the California grandkids. After they retired for hot chocolate and Mac and cheese, took a run on Thunderbolt and Rivershot. Snow conditions perfect even late afternoon. Crowds very light. 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

1 hour ago, C1erArt said:

Nice day at Frost with the California grandkids. After they retired for hot chocolate and Mac and cheese, took a run on Thunderbolt and Rivershot. Snow conditions perfect even late afternoon. Crowds very light. 

How was Floyd’s?

[C1erArt]

14 hours ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

How was Floyd’s?

They have some whales on it, maybe opening this weekend. Nothing on one of the feeder trails to it (solitude). Losing the fan guns really hurt their snowmaking capabilities. 

[JFskiDan]

1 hour ago, C1erArt said:

They have some whales on it, maybe opening this weekend. Nothing on one of the feeder trails to it (solitude). Losing the fan guns really hurt their snowmaking capabilities. 

Well at this point they are making better progress than Camelback.  But thats still pretty pathetic.  

[JFskiDan]

Seems like Fail is operating snowmaking at a snails pace at most resorts.  granted some of these resorts dont have snowmaking on 100%, but this seems like some pretty low numbers to me.  

And Hunter is 47/71

[C1erArt]

1 hour ago, JFskiDan said:

Seems like Fail is operating snowmaking at a snails pace at most resorts.  granted some of these resorts dont have snowmaking on 100%, but this seems like some pretty low numbers to me.  

And Hunter is 47/71

Was at Mt Snow end of last week both sets of grandkids. Spent most of the time on the magic carpet and the bunny slope. Surprisingly little amount of the trails open, but the worst part was very few lifts were running at opening, with long lift lines on the one or two open. Only one lift other than the bunny slope lift until late morning most days. It was windy, but the winds hadn’t died down when they finally opened a second lift to the top.

[momskeeztoo]

That really stinks. I got a 3 day Epic NE local pass. Spent a day at Roundtop and going to Whitetail Thursday. Roundtop seems like a nice little mountain, staff was friendly, and they’re 100% open now. That being said, I only got the pass because my son lives out that way, we can ski together when I visit, and I have a free place to stay overnight. I always like checking new places out, but wouldn’t get an Epic pass otherwise. 

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

Wondering it the much smaller lift lines at Frost this skison compared to recent years are connected to Camelback and Blue joining Ikon in time for Alterra to lure NEPA skiers away from their annual Epic pass purchases.

Camelback is overcrowded by all accounts this year as Frosts closest Ikon competitor. You all would know better than I if Blue crowds have increased

Edited January 14 by Ski2Live Live2Ski

[Kyle]

I would think the lack of snowmaking willpower, outdated lifts, lack of open terrain might be more of a factor… 

[Ski2Live Live2Ski]

None of that changed from last year when there were much bigger lines. Ikon adding Blue and Camelback on time for this years pass purchases did change.

They have essentially everything but Floyd’s open and added 3 new lifts last year. Not high speed, but you almost never see high speed lifts at places with 525’ vertical. Slow lifts with next to no lines will always beat long lines for faster lifts.

 

Edited January 14 by Ski2Live Live2Ski

[trackbiker]

After the Epic lift lines last year and even long time Philly weather person Cecily Tynan posting about the crowds, people are avoiding the place this year.

Fail doesn't understand the Pocono Market. The Pocono Market includes a lot of families who do a once year trip to the mountains to ski. They're not Epic pass buyers. With the super high day ticket prices, they either skipped the winter weekend trip, went somewhere else, or did other activities.

Fails pass sales went down this year even though they started including pre-purchased day tickets in their sales numbers to make the numbers look good for their shareholders.