Mountian Race teams and gates

[Papasteeze]

It looks as though Nastar has gates set up before the bonafide USSA-PARA race teams do. I am sick about hearing how complex and difficult USSA gates are, no wonder they don't use them to practice on, they just throw some out and say - let see you go race around those..None of the teams have had any practice using real gates and I know that Ridges first race in on the 7th - THAT IS LAME! -

 

RANT...

 

Futhermore - I have to be some kinda of elitest certified in this and that to drill holes in the snow to offer to help. CRAPOLA!

Edited December 25, 2005 by Papasteeze

[AtomicSkier]

It looks as though Nastar has gates set up before the bonafide USSA-PARA race teams do. I am sick about hearing how complex and difficult USSA gates are, no wonder they don't use them to practice on, they just throw some out and say - let see you go race around those..None of the teams have had any practice using real gates and I know that Ridges first race in on the 7th - THAT IS LAME! -

 

RANT...

 

Futhermore - I have to be some kinda of elitest certified in this and that to drill holes in the snow to offer to help. CRAPOLA!

 

Every kid is in the same situation on the CAT team, including the best, and yes, Ridge. But some have traveled to VT, such as Adam to race, and get some early season practice. Adam is racing this weekend I believe.

 

Every kid on the Blue Mountain team, is not. They had like 3 different courses set up on Razors Edge yesterday (three "courses" of real gates, and one for the little kids w/ brushes). One set on the top headwall, then started again in the middle section, and then came the little kids section, then another set of real gates. They had the trail almost top to bottom in gates, and that's a lot of gates.

 

Does rocket have enough snow to set real gates? I know Adam said something about needing a certain amount of snow. But look at Sibhusky's daughter, she is skiing in an FIS face (not some low-key J4 PARA event) and she has had no or limited gate time. She did well. Most kids are in the same boat Rob, very little gate time this time of year.

[skierboi]

ya so far i have done 2 races without any gate training

[Ski]

You have some choices:

 

1. Take some courses, attend some camps, learn to race, and coach your kids the way you want them coached.

 

2. Trust a Level 3 Certified USSA coach with decades of experience that has turned out some of the best racers in PA year after year.

 

3. Quit and be a NASTAR racer.

 

4. Quit and go to Blue.

 

The example you're setting by openly disparaging the CAT program and it's coaching methodology is as lame as it gets. Make an appointment with your head coach and have a private discussion so he can explain his philosophy as a Certified Level 3 USSA coach with decades of experience.

[Papasteeze]

Maybe some day I will understand.. I know of one family that switched from CB to Blue, for reasons like being "serious" and having gates set up.. Props to Bleu

 

I got recently got reprimanded by a coach at CB during dryland training, (while Blue was open, I suggested that we all should go to Blue to get some runs in) ..... - who said he was certified in this and that and that he takes this very "serious".. Yesterday and the day before Ridge could have had some "fun" got plenty of vert, but no he had to go to ski team. He came off the slopes at 11:30 bored, and not happy. That sucks!

 

I dunno know of any race that doesn't have gates, it just seems to me that ALL training should be done with gates. Not much different than football practice on a field without yard markers or baseball with out plates or track with out an oval. etc etc etc...

 

I am not an expert, but I am sorry this makes no sense to me.... Matter of fact..... WHAT?

[skierboi]

you need to work on the basics before the gates are run

[AtomicSkier]

Rob, for once, and this is hard for a parent to understand maybe, but you need to take a back seat. Your statement about all training should be done with gates is absurd. I know one of Blue's philosophy, is to produce a good racer, you have to be a great skier. Blue does not train JUST on gates. They quite frequently do bump run after bump run. I've seen them jumping over gates laying on the ground, skiing with one ski off, etc. A great racer can't be made by just gate run after gate run. I agree with Ridge's coach.

[Metz the Jersey boy]

yeah rob, I hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but even though I have limited experience with ski racing, i can speak from all-state experience in other sports. Football championships aren't won on practice fields with yardage markers. I never had a practice field with yardages marked. They are won in the weight room, running routes in the gym, running on the street, and with various plyometric exercises. The season is when you bring it all together. What i'm trying to say are that there are different aspects to skiing, and running gates is what happens when you bring it all together. Take the obstacles out of the way, let everyone learn how to carve and ski more powerfully and efficiently, and then drop in the gates. Its a much better formula for success. The way I see it, I have never even raced ASRA, but I feel like I've spent the past 20 years of my life training for the olympics. I've seen EXTREMELY limited time running gates but I truly feel like I can be one of the fastest on the mountain, any given day, gates or no gates. Its just something to think about. You can feel free to disagree, or agree, but I have to agree with a lot of the others. Gates are just a walk through before the real thing. Champions are built long before gates even appear on the hill.

[Ski]

you need to work on the basics before the gates are run

Yep. And what Jeff says, too.

 

It's the oldest gripe in the world not to be in the gates, so nobody will give you a hard to time about feeling that way. But you aren't doing the kids any good by being a stage mom about it. Shut up and trust your coaches, or quit. Bad habits or the need for certain skills aren't cured or fixed in gates...they are made worse. The idea is to have the kids learn great turns and then put them in gates.

 

And consider this: J4/5 GS courses are VERY basic and very NASTAR-like. There are no tricks or real rythm changes. Your kids have nothing to be concerned about. Without checking the schedule, I would assume they'd open with a GS, so there's plenty of time for them to learn slalom basics.

 

Your kids are a couple of seasons away from their first meaningful race as 2nd yr J3's.

[Papasteeze]

Guess what guys, it's not me complaining, it is my kid and 3 other members on the CB team as of today (Merry Christmas!) who are saying the same thing. None of you that I last checked are racing on a team. Maybe you are. How would you feel at the top of race knowing that you haven't seen a gate and that you are part of race team are you really gonna be thinking drills.. helll no! you are going to be thinking fast!! If you don't practice drills around gates at least some. Adrenaline is going to make you forget.... what is the point?

 

I created this post because I watch and I listen and then because I love to stir things up, I then speak for those who are more demure in nature.

 

One of our very own thinks... well too bad he's not online, I'll invite him up tomorrow, maybe it will mean more coming from someone who races.

 

I am all for drills, each day is from 8 till 2:30, It is absolutely stupid to put a kid a bonafide race who has not turned any gates or minimal gates and has only done "drills". A race itself should be a drill of equal or more importance.

 

Ever wonder why Ridge is so fast? It doesn't have to do with 150+ timed gated races last year... no -- it is because of all the drills he did last year, that is why he is fast.... NOT!!

[AtomicSkier]

Guess what guys, it's not me complaining, it is my kid and 3 other members on the CB team as of today (Merry Christmas!) who are saying the same thing. None of you that I last checked are racing on a team. Maybe you are. How would you feel at the top of race knowing that you haven't seen a gate and that you are part of race team are you really gonna be thinking drills.. helll no! you are going to be thinking fast!! If you don't practice drills around gates at least some. Adrenaline is going to make you forget.... what is the point?

 

I created this post because I watch and I listen and then because I love to stir things up, I then speak for those who are more demure in nature.

 

One of our very own thinks... well too bad he's not online, I'll invite him up tomorrow, maybe it will mean more coming from someone who races.

 

I am all for drills, each day is from 8 till 2:30, It is absolutely stupid to put a kid a bonafide race who has not turned any gates or minimal gates and has only done "drills". A race itself should be a drill of equal or more importance.

 

Ever wonder why Ridge is so fast? It doesn't have to do with 150+ timed gated races last year... no -- it is because of all the drills he did last year, that is why he is fast.... NOT!!

 

Ridge won't be so fast w/o any gate practice now will he sorry, I had to

 

Rob, it's the first race, his season is not going to be decided by the first race of the year. Think of it as an exhibition, he's a J4 for crying out loud. There will be plenty of gates to be run (if CB even has the J4's running alot of gates). The reason why you do drills is to engrain the technique into your brain, so when you are in the start gate, you don't need to think about the drills, it just happens. When I push off, I'm not thinking "GET FORWARD!!!!!" (well, i'm actually yelling it outload), I'm just thinking how to go fast, and if you're a good ski racer, that comes naturally, from all the drills. The reason I did resonably well for my first time racing was because of the drills I practiced, after watching the Blue Mountain team running the same drills. Maybe there is a method behind CB's madness, or maybe there isn't. But after 3 weekends of doing drills w/o gates, Blue's team was running a whole 3300' long trail full of gates yesterday.

Ever wonder why Ridge is so fast?

 

Edited December 26, 2005 by AtomicSkier

[Papasteeze]

Rob, for once, and this is hard for a parent to understand maybe, but you need to take a back seat. Your statement about all training should be done with gates is absurd. I know one of Blue's philosophy, is to produce a good racer, you have to be a great skier. Blue does not train JUST on gates. They quite frequently do bump run after bump run. I've seen them jumping over gates laying on the ground, skiing with one ski off, etc. A great racer can't be made by just gate run after gate run. I agree with Ridge's coach.

 

I have been keeping an eye on blue and all I can say is that I wish they had a "northridge" there. BTW - Ridge has had 3 different coaches in 5 days on the snow. Back seat is not my style, never will be, I drive, you ride..

[skigurl]

i am on the same team, and was put in the same position last yr, i had never done gates with the team and over x-mas break did a race at Mt. Creek, i was fine. i understand that yes running gates it one of the best ways to improve buit it's NOT the only way to improve. If you really don't like how our team is run then maybe you should switch teams. As a J1 we have yet to get into gates this season, but our coaches have us working on other parts of our skiing, such as balance and position. i personaly think in just 3 days of practice with coaches i've seen a difference in my skiing. i'll admit i want to get into gates just as much as the next kid but looking at the background on the coaches i think they know what is best, and if they don't think training gates is whats best then i'm ganna have to agree with them. They know when we have races, what days we have to train and THEY KNOW HOW TO RUN A RACE TEAM so i think we should leave it up to them. i know from a coaches prespective(i coach swimming over the summer) you can deal with annoying kids, braty kids and mean kids but the worst to have to deal with is the parents who have never coached or never participated in the sport telling you how they think it should be done. in a time like this as hard as it may be, it might be best to hold your tounge and let the pros(in this case the coaches) do their jobs

Edited December 26, 2005 by RacerChick

[Papasteeze]

Ridge won't be so fast w/o any gate practice now will he sorry, I had to

 

Rob, it's the first race, his season is not going to be decided by the first race of the year. Think of it as an exhibition, he's a J4 for crying out loud. There will be plenty of gates to be run (if CB even has the J4's running alot of gates). The reason why you do drills is to engrain the technique into your brain, so when you are in the start gate, you don't need to think about the drills, it just happens. When I push off, I'm not thinking "GET FORWARD!!!!!" (well, i'm actually yelling it outload), I'm just thinking how to go fast, and if you're a good ski racer, that comes naturally, from all the drills. The reason I did resonably well for my first time racing was because of the drills I practiced, after watching the Blue Mountain team running the same drills. Maybe there is a method behind CB's madness, or maybe there isn't. But after 3 weekends of doing drills w/o gates, Blue's team was running a whole 3300' long trail full of gates yesterday.

 

Ridge is jealous of Blue, I can't tell him any of that. He know from his brother that apparently 20+ Blue racers were at Whistlers at the time Nipples was at COC....

 

So what if he is a J4, he wants to be the best J4 but knows he is a first year.. He also knows what he did in Nastar - he wants to race and is bored right now. Last year was exciting and a ton of fun through the Nastar program. I/we want to make sure that skiing is fun. This weekend has not been fun for him.

[skigurl]

i hope he knows as a J4 that they don't have a race very weekend, honestly i don't think they have a whole lot of races at all, Nastar is also compleatly different then USSA, if he is board did you ever think he's not putting into it what he should. if he is as dedicated as everyone says he is then he shouldn't be board, he should be out there taking in what ever a coach is giving him and using it to help him improve

[Ski]

Guess what guys, it's not me complaining...

 

Ever wonder why Ridge is so fast? It doesn't have to do with 150+ timed gated races last year... no -- it is because of all the drills he did last year, that is why he is fast.... NOT!!

 

Yes, it is YOU complaining and it just seems like you are intent on sabotaging your kid's start in the race world because of your ignorance.

 

Do you have any clue how creepy it sounds posting how "fast" a kid is and he never had to practice or do drills, yet the kid has never been on anything but a gym class NASTAR? Would you really want his coaches to read any of this?

 

Rob, we ALL want to root for EVERY young racer, such as the one closest to you, but take your gripes with the coaches to a private place between you and them.

 

Jeez, give me 20 kids with Missy's attitude on ANY kind of team over one prima dona.

 

Lastly, Sib and I have made countless offerings of advise as parents who have gone through it all, yet you've ignored every bit of it. I couldn't even get it through your head that hazing is a crime and what happened was the purest form of the definition of hazing, because you felt the video was cool.

 

You are a lost cause and I can't believe I allowed myself to be sucked into this pointless thread.

 

I'm done trying to help you, but Ridge will ALWAYS be welcome to pm me for any racing and team related advise (although his TEAMMATE Missy could do just as well).

[Papasteeze]

He is bored, because it doesn't move fast enough for him from what I have gathered. He says his coaches talk too much.

 

Don't worry about interference from me towards the CAT team. These are my thoughts based on observations. Matter of fact, don't worry about interaction either in the form of donations and sponsorships for safety fencing either because apparently CB won't allow logos to be put on them.

 

Yeah there is an aura of we are good, nobody can tell us anything, because we know what we are doing.. blah blah blah I am done now, thanks for your time! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

[skierboi]

papasteeze, on sat. i was in your sons group for a couple runs, and the coach was teaching then not to be back and the keep a sound upper body, which is essential for a race

[Papasteeze]

Yes, it is YOU complaining and it just seems like you are intent on sabotaging your kid's start in the race world because of your ignorance.

 

Do you have any clue how creepy it sounds posting how "fast" a kid is and he never had to practice or do drills, yet the kid has never been on anything but a gym class NASTAR? Would you really want his coaches to read any of this?

 

Rob, we ALL want to root for EVERY young racer, such as the one closest to you, but take your gripes with the coaches to a private place between you and them.

 

Jeez, give me 20 kids with Missy's attitude on ANY kind of team over one prima dona.

 

Lastly, Sib and I have made countless offerings of advise as parents who have gone through it all, yet you've ignored every bit of it. I couldn't even get it through your head that hazing is a crime and what happened was the purest form of the definition of hazing, because you felt the video was cool.

 

You are a lost cause and I can't believe I allowed myself to be sucked into this pointless thread.

 

I'm done trying to help you, but Ridge will ALWAYS be welcome to pm me for any racing and team related advise (although his TEAMMATE Missy could do just as well).

 

See? that is the same elitest, I am right and you are wrong attitude, that I get slapped with at CB. To tell me that I am a lost cause shows your true colors.

 

 

papasteeze, on sat. i was in your sons group for a couple runs, and the coach was teaching then not to be back and the keep a sound upper body, which is essential for a race

 

wow!! what a revelation!!! holy cow! I am sure glad someone told him that.. He never heard that before, never practiced it either!!

[Ski]

He says his coaches talk too much.

 

Don't you hate when coaches coach?

 

Rob: put the schnapps down and take a nap.

 

papasteeze, on sat. i was in your sons group for a couple runs, and the coach was teaching then not to be back and the keep a sound upper body, which is essential for a race

 

I forgot to thank you for Damon. If he hits .220, though, he's coming right back.

[skierboi]

I forgot to thank you for Damon. If he hits .220, though, he's coming right back.

he'll have a blast in a bigger stadium

[Papasteeze]

Don't you hate when coaches coach?

 

Rob: put the schnapps down and take a nap.

 

Coaching is one thing.. talking so much that my kid makes a comment about it is another thing. I could care less about methods, this is not a knee jerk thing, it has been building.. You don't know Ridge, he doesn't complain, I do.

 

Schnapps gives me a headache, not skiing, not working, and triptofan (or what ever is in the turkey) listening to gripes about CB has got me riled. Don't forget guys, I openly admit that I am no expert skiing coach, but I am an expert observer and problem solver and director to those solutions needed.

[skigurl]

 

wow!! what a revelation!!! holy cow! I am sure glad someone told him that.. He never heard that before, never practiced it either!!

 

so what are you going to say when i coach says that it's your son who is still the one in the back seat?

 

if you can't listen to a coach now when you are just doing drills then what is going to change when a coach is telling him something about how he runs gates, some how i don't think a whole lot.

 

Rob this isn't about you, this is about Ridge, if he wants to be the best he is going to have to listen to the coaches, bring a positive attitude to the team, and give it all he has, if and when he does that and he still isn't having fun then you can rant about how you don't like what is being done, or how things are run, but until then, you might want to change your attitude because the coaches will tell you to take your kids and leave.

[Ski]

I am an expert observer and problem solver and director to those solutions needed.

 

No, apparently not.

[sibhusky]

I dunno know of any race that doesn't have gates, it just seems to me that ALL training should be done with gates.

 

The normal routine here is dryland training in the fall four days a week to build strength, flexibility, stamina. Then the first few days, if Siblet had been home, would have been freeskiing to get used to skis again, especially if there is new equipment. Then gate training starts. But even so, the coaches take the kids off piste on occasion because if you can handle trees, moguls, etc. on the whole mountain at speed, then you will be prepared for ANYTHING a course throws at you. Freeskiing is an important part of race training. How would Siblet have fared at Mammoth with a course like that if all she skied was a hardened run of gates? She survived ruts around the gates that were about 2 to 3 FEET deep into the darn snow as racer after racer ahead of her dug the pits deeper and deeper. If all you ski on is a ballroom dance floor your skills will be sadly lacking.