Mountian Race teams and gates

[skidude]

You are missing the point. If all those years of race training make you good at gates. Then why isn't Ridge at the bottom of the class?

 

Besides, who said anything about world cup and who said anything about going independent? This thread is about gates and when do they come in training?

 

 

Just because you run gates or don't run gates, doesn't mean you will be good at skiing.

 

I know a few people who have raced, trained, done nastar, all that good stuff for years and still finish in the last 5 every race they go to. Just like I know people who seem to pick up skiing wiht almost no effort.

 

It seems like you are not very happy with the Camelback program, and want to change the whole thing because you don't think it works the best for Ridge. But then in the same breath you say things saying how new you are to this and don't really understand. IMO I think the Camelback race program is very good, not perfect, but good, and I wouldn't go trying to tell the coaches how to do there jobs.

 

 

If all Ridge wants to do is run nastar, then there are plenty of places he can do that. If he wants to get to a higher level of skiing, then he is probably in a good program.

 

I have watched him ski, hes good, but there is TONS of potentail for him to be a whole lot faster. If he wants to put the time and effort into it. If he does, then I would recomend to you that you let the coaches at whatever mountain you end up at, do their job.

 

 

just my thoughts

[Ski]

Bode is a non-conformist because he wore sandals to a prom? Or because he threatens to leave the World Cup and race against himself? Sorry, but Bode is a CVA product and then a product of USSA coaching.

 

And, btw, he's in second place in the overall, behind Rahlves. And right now, his team thinks he's a jerk for calling them sh*tty names for not supporting his strange stance that there shouldn't be drug testing.

 

And Bode is chasing teammate Teg Ligety, who is currently one of the top World Cup slalom skiers.

 

So now Ridge doesn't want to race? Great that you are going to support him giving it his all for a month. I sure hope he succeeds in spite of you and your attitude.

 

Rob, name a high school sport where you don't have tough and often times less-than-thrilling practices?

 

I don't believe it that you ever played a high school or college sport. No way.

[VTmark]

i wish i had some snowboard gates to run through.

[Glenn]

Think of this analogy. A pianist who practices chords, knows how to sit at the piano, foot placement but is never allowed to play the whole song until the night of the recital. It doesn't make sense, I tell you. I am talking about young kids, who want to go fast around some flags against a clock. they should be allowed to do that and do it frequently.

 

... as someone who plays all sorts of music in all sorts of realms I can tell you that in fact generally speaking you don't play the whole thing through until the week of the recital or concert or what have you. It's frustrating for the performers (especially the inexperienced). They want to just play music, but if you can't get one part right what does playing the whole thing through do? I spend hours of practice time on a few bars of music, thats why I'm good, very good. When I put it all together it's that much more fun because I can nail everything without much effort at all. With musical maturity I can pick up easy music and play it flawless the first time all the way through because I've experienced similar things 1000's of times. It's just reguritation, musical vocabulary if you will.

 

I think the analogy goes beyond music and skiing.

[Ski]

It sucks that mountains don't have free gates for skiers and snowboarders. They are cheaper to maintain than terrain parks, yet we have to pay extra to have them set up for just a few hours a week.

 

Imagine having to pay $10 extra every time you wanted unlimited runs through a halfpipe for all of two hours a day?

[Glenn]

The last caveat. With the other threads on parks - imagine, if there were gates accessible for kids to race around similar to the way terrain parks are accessible. Think there would be more interest in racing? Ah yep.. for sure.. racing a clock, there is no argument about who did what. It would inspire kids to find out how they can go faster. All this monkey business about proper training and this and that is fine for the kids who are serious about racing, like on a high school level, but not as an adolescent.

 

Except the comparison isn't 1 to 1. At it's core racing is turning, which can be done anywhere on the mountain. At it's core freestyling is arial acrobatics and jibbing. Air can be achieved on a limited amount on the mountain, and jibbing not at all. Steve goes to trampoline class yes... Sure it's not the same as going off jumps, but it's building skills which transfer to skiing.

[sibhusky]

When I said find a coach he likes and wants to work for, it didn't mean shop around until you find a coach that'll let him run gates whether it's the right thing or not. Ridge needs to understand that a good coach will have him doing things he doesn't understand the purpose of. He either buys into that idea or he's not ready to be coached. He has to put himself in the hands of the coach, not look for a coach that wants to keep him HAPPY. Kids that expect to, within a month of starting a sport, do as they please as opposed to what is best for them are not going to succeed. Racing is not play time. If Ridge finds another coach who thinks it's all about gates, good for him. But I don't think you're going to find that coach.

 

IMO, Ridge should be taken off the team until both of you find a team that suits your philosophy of training or until Ridge understands what is entailed in advancing in a sport. Until that time, you are just wasting the coach's time, wasting your money, and enabling Ridge to demand goodies be given to him without effort on his part. He's got a year or two before it's too late to start.

 

Siblet had years of gymnastics training before she started ski racing, which is probably why she understood the need for drills and the boring stuff before she could do the flashy tricks. So she was ready to do the work entailed when she joined the team. She and ski999's eldest would set up their own "gates" and practice drills (skiing on one ski, etc.) when they didn't feel that they had done enough of that stuff during training. It was cool to watch.

[Ski]

She and ski999's eldest would set up their own "gates" and practice drills (skiing on one ski, etc.) when they didn't feel that they had done enough of that stuff during training. It was cool to watch.

Wow, I remember...and even though ski racing isn't a team sport, the girls got better because of each other.

 

 

But, anyway, yes, Sib's dead on with every point.

[Papasteeze]

Bode is a non-conformist because he wore sandals to a prom? Or because he threatens to leave the World Cup and race against himself? Sorry, but Bode is a CVA product and then a product of USSA coaching.

 

No - he is non-conformist in my eyes because he speaks out and up at times contrary to the general opinion. All the sudden, I feel like a Bode

 

 

i wish i had some snowboard gates to run through.

 

there may be a possibility that Nastar will be setting snowboard gates at the Nationals. I know the idea is being tossed around

 

 

It sucks that mountains don't have free gates for skiers and snowboarders. They are cheaper to maintain than terrain parks, yet we have to pay extra to have them set up for just a few hours a week.

 

That point is one of the major ones, from a big picture point of view, that is driving me to continue to reply..

 

 

Wow, I remember...and even though ski racing isn't a team sport, the girls got better because of each other.

But, anyway, yes, Sib's dead on with every point.

 

As for having Ridge leave the team, no way, not unless he wants to. Overall, joining the team has been a positive experience. Don't take my questioning of training regimines, the way everyone here who has responded, the way you do. My type writing prose rarely comes across the way it was intended. I personally just see it as very different and worthy of questioning and worthy of receiving mature answers. To tell me to shut up and respect all rules with all questioning is a path to mediocrity, what is the point of that in a competitive sport? Be it "right or wrong" doesn't matter, it is only opinion. Keeping it fun and interesting, challenging and a host of other things, is all I would like skiing to be, for my kids and myself.

[Ski]

My type writing prose rarely comes across the way it was intended.

 

So you just continuously "accidentally" trash the USSA coaches, programs, and methods? I just can't imagine worse sportsmanship than calling your teammates and coaches negative things in a public forum, such as to the press or on public MB's. In that one aspect, you and Bode are the same. Is that your goal? To take Bode's worst quality and copy it on a small scale? That's very odd, Rob.

[VTmark]

 

there may be a possibility that Nastar will be setting snowboard gates at the Nationals. I know the idea is being tossed around

too bad im too slow to quilfy and even if i didn't i wont have the money to go. ):

[Papasteeze]

So you just continuously "accidentally" trash the USSA coaches, programs, and methods? I just can't imagine worse sportsmanship than calling your teammates and coaches negative things in a public forum, such as to the press or on public MB's. In that one aspect, you and Bode are the same. Is that your goal? To take Bode's worst quality and copy it on a small scale? That's very odd, Rob.

 

I do it for no other purpose than to rile you up You are to easy

 

I concede, the USSA program is the best on earth and there is absolutely no room for improvement and nothing should ever be questioned because everyone who is an advocate of that program is right and everybody else is wrong...

[VTmark]

I concede, the USSA program is the best on earth and there is absolutely no room for improvement and nothing should ever be questioned because everyone who is an advocate of that program is right and everybody else is wrong...

sarcasm 101 their.

[Papasteeze]

sarcasm 101 their.

 

ahhh yep.. thats how a noobie racing parent is made to feel when they ask the question. "This is a race team, when are you going to put some gates out?" (well at least this one is).

[Ski]

I do it for no other purpose than to rile you up You are to easy

 

I concede, the USSA program is the best on earth and there is absolutely no room for improvement and nothing should ever be questioned because everyone who is an advocate of that program is right and everybody else is wrong...

 

You disparage Ridge's coaches to rile me up? You might want another hobby, Rob.

 

And I worry about any situation where children that suffer concussions are taken to a jaring physical activity later that night because "they wanted to go."

[Papasteeze]

You disparage Ridge's coaches to rile me up? You might want another hobby, Rob.

 

And I worry about any situation where children that suffer concussions are taken to a jaring physical activity later that night because "they wanted to go."

 

Disparage Coaches? No! Question the reasoning behind training programs in relation to 11 year olds? Yes!

 

You amaze me that me that you for all your intelligence, that you will stoop to the level of starting to attack on a personal level.... 3 days later, against my wishes for a private trampoline lesson and I made the coach aware of the face plant, just so you have the facts straight.

 

Uhhhh... should I? Naaaaaaa - I won't mention that I push kids out of starting gates right onto their face.

 

Back on topic, please, and moving forward. Tell me what I should pass onto Ridge's mother for advice on Saturdays J4 race at JF.. As a coach, what would you tell a parent to do in preparation. Would you tell the team to meet in a certain area. Would you tell them to bring parents to the start house or not. What can you offer to help a new racing parent out?

[Ski]

You amaze me that me that you for all your intelligence, that you will stoop to the level of starting to attack on a personal level.... 3 days later, against my wishes for a private trampoline lesson and I made the coach aware of the face plant, just so you have the facts straight.

 

Uhhhh... should I? Naaaaaaa - I won't mention that I push kids out of starting gates right onto their face.

 

Back on topic, please, and moving forward. Tell me what I should pass onto Ridge's mother for advice on Saturdays J4 race at JF.. As a coach, what would you tell a parent to do in preparation. Would you tell the team to meet in a certain area. Would you tell them to bring parents to the start house or not. What can you offer to help a new racing parent out?

 

"He face planted on a trick on a hit that he had done many times as part of his last run. He got a sled ride. He is okay as eveidenced by his going to trampoline class after I told him no."----Ha, yeah, three days later. Hahahaha.

 

And I don't hurl Ty down the course...I follow her through the start wand and stay behind her through the course FOR SAFETY REASONS. She may be five, but she's the smallest in her class. She weighs 35 lbs and is 42" tall. She is TINY. If she crashes, I pick her up. The Mountain Dew crew set the timing posts too close together. I just couldn't snow plow behind her through it enough and I knocked her over. I also didn't feel it was safe to send her down alone, then HOPE she cleared out of the starting area. I didn't take Ty to the race to win; I took her their to do something fun with her dad. And I only planned to race if I was sure it would be safe for her---which it wasn't.

 

And your looking for advice on J4 race day? Why? You wouldn't listen.

[Papasteeze]

"He face planted on a trick on a hit that he had done many times as part of his last run. He got a sled ride. He is okay as eveidenced by his going to trampoline class after I told him no."----Ha, yeah, three days later. Hahahaha.

 

And I don't hurl Ty down the course...I follow her through the start wand and stay behind her through the course FOR SAFETY REASONS. She may be five, but she's the smallest in her class. She weighs 35 lbs and is 42" tall. She is TINY. If she crashes, I pick her up. The Mountain Dew crew set the timing posts too close together. I just couldn't snow plow behind her through it enough and I knocked her over. I also didn't feel it was safe to send her down alone, then HOPE she cleared out of the starting area. I didn't take Ty to the race to win; I took her their to do something fun with her dad. And I only planned to race if I was sure it would be safe for her---which it wasn't.

 

And your looking for advice on J4 race day? Why? You wouldn't listen.

 

Damn - you got a answer for everything. oh my god... you are so perfect!!

[Glenn]

Both of you can keep your comments poor parenting elsewhere. The discussion is about the value if of practicing with gates or simply running drills. Anything else will be deleted or the topic will be closed. Play nice!

[skidude]

What can you offer to help a new racing parent out?

 

 

Race Day Pointers for Parents are very important requests and suggestions which parents should adhere to on race day. It is important for every parent to familiarize themselves with these pointers to ensure the success of our athletes.

 

1. Leave course inspection to the coaches unless asked by a coach to do so. Coaches have worked on specific things with each athlete and are able to pinpoint what that athlete needs to be thinking about. Too much information on race day or a change in focus can have a negative effect.

 

2. Parents are asked to stay away from the "Start" area unless asked specifically by a coach to perform a certain task. An athlete has to focus on the job at hand and mom or dad can be a distraction. Again, each coach is very aware of what your child should be doing in preparation for his or her run.

 

3. While watching the race or back in the lodge, keep negative comments about other children, coaches, or the running of the race to yourself. Racers will quickly pick up on these statements, use them as excuses, and will carry it around the rest of the day.

 

4. Video is a wonderful technology and plays a key role in the development of ski racers, but it has a specific time and place. Race day is not it. If a coach finds the need for it, he will let someone know. Athletes tend to focus on what they have done wrong afer viewing video, some have missed seond run starts due to being in the lodge watching video, and some have been given information that is new or different than what a coach has been focusing on with them.

 

5. Video at home should also be done with discretion. Keep it relaxed, short, positive, and fun. Give them the chance to watch it alone and see what they think! Last but not least, coaching is done during training. The coaching staff teaches technique, inspection, line tactics, psychology, and sportsmanship. Race day is the day where all of this should come together. An old sage of ski racing once said, "If you didn't bring it with you, you won't find it here." At the younger ages, the result will not always be positive but hopefully, something will be learned. Itmay be a critical lesson like line adjustment or it may be something as insignificant as figuring out when to be at the start for your run. Give positive guidance, support, and understanding then stand back and watch your child grow!

 

http://catteam.com/page8.html

 

 

 

Q: What if I think the coach should be doing something else - like applying wax to my kids skis?

 

A: Please read Race Day Tips for Parents! Parents should remember that the coaches are in charge and are doing their jobs! Please keep in mind that there are alot of kids to handle and the coaches have their hands full. Coaches are the experts and, while you may not agree with everything they do, they are doing the best job for your kids and are following acceptable coaching guidelines! Remember to thank them at the end of the day!!

 

 

http://www.catteam.com/page4.html

 

 

 

There are many other things on there, but that should be enough of a start for you.

Edited January 6, 2006 by skidude

[sibhusky]

Interestingly enough, in the issue I have here of Ski Racing magazine, which Siblet gets with her USSA license, there is a discussion which touches on gate training for younger athletes. I tried to find this on their web site so I could put in a link to it, but couldn't find it. Anyone who has this issue (January 11) can find it on page 43. I'm just going to quote parts of the article.

 

Question: When should junior racers begin to run gates? Should they begin with drill courses, and if so, what kinds?

Finn Gundersen (USSA's director of alpine education): Agreement has been reached in the coaching ranks that younger athletes should spend more time outside the gates, developing a broad base of skiing skills and, more importantly, experiencding the joys of freeskiing. Successful gate training, when it happens, can be sustained only by a love for skiing. .....

 

USSA's advice is to err on the side of building skiing skills through directed skiing (specific drills with a coach) coupled with undirected "fun" freeskiing. ....

 

So in general, start with drills and lots of freeskiing, then move into gates, following a plan that supports the competition season. For younger athletes, J3 and below, USSA offers this goal: double the time spent skiing (all kinds) while cutting in half the time spent talking about it.

 

The article contains a description of a sample drill involving gates, brushes, panels whatever, where the drill is presented as a game which also teaches tactical skills.

[sibhusky]

As for what to expect at the J4 race. Make sure he has his racing license (and his PARA card if I remember correctly)! They don't give out the bibs unless you turn over the license for them to hold until they get the bib back (at least that was the BB drill, I assume it holds true for JF). Beyond that, be sure she has money or a check for tickets, it's not always convenient for them to take credit cards. Be prepared for a lot of waiting around and chaos. Make sure he gets out the door on time for course inspection. Then get out of the way. Normally, the girls run first, then the boys. The kids normally have an hour between the end of the boys' first run and the beginning of course inspection for the second run. If he finishes in the top xx (normally 30 for a large field, 15 for a small field), they will run the second run in reverse order for those kids, but finish order for the rest. That is, if he finishes 1st for the first run, he will run 15th or 30th for the second run. If he finishes 31st for the first run, he will run 31st for the second run. If she can, she should try and snag a start list for each run so she knows when he is coming down. He'll wear the same bib for both runs and the second run will NOT be in bib order, so she'll need to find out the bib numbers of the kids immediately before him or she'll miss him. I'm not familiar with JF as a race venue, so I can't recommend where she should stand to see the most. I always got myself a ticket as I don't like climbing up snowy hills and I do like to get some runs in for myself, but many moms did climb race courses to watch. Once he gets done the first run, you need to help him get through lunch, GO TO THE BATHROOM, etc. fast enough to make that course inspection, but that's about all that moms should be doing. At the end of the day, there is usually some pressure to hang around for awards even if your kid isn't getting one, which can be a pain in the butt, so be ready mentally for it.

Edited January 6, 2006 by sibhusky

[ThinkSnow]

Ok, thanks all for the good information. This thread has had enough.

 

'999 and Papasteeze, please refrain from attacking each other personally here.