CB closed AGAIN

[poconoceancity]

Booter is lower in elevation and farther south than Camelback, si they are just about always cooler than Camelback..

Did BB, JF or Elk close today, they are all at higher elevations and had colder temps?

[4 more wars]

I can't argue with CBs recent limitations - last weekend I almost got my feet blown out from under me by the winds. I'm mostly just trying to figure where ass' is coming from with the idea that it's inefficient to keep the mountain open during the week unless the conditions are optimal. And that passholders have no real value.

 

I didn't say that passholders had no real value. Please point out WHERE I SAID THAT.

 

I'm saying, everyone would have pissed and moaned about today's conditions at Camelback. When someone comes to visit once or twice per year, they only get ONE impression. You don't want that impression to be that Camelback will stay open, regardless of how dangerous and shitty the conditions are.

 

It'd be better to stay closed on a day when few people would have been there, compared to a weekend. I stand by that statement, and I beg someone to refute it.

 

and PS... whoever it was that said CB doesn't care about their customers is full of crap. They definately care about them. Their future depends on it.

[Ski]

You don't want that impression to be that Camelback will stay open, regardless of how dangerous and shitty the conditions are.

 

 

Are you insane?

[Shadows]

I didn't say that passholders had no real value. Please point out WHERE I SAID THAT.

 

 

 

Don't be pissed at Camelback for preserving what little mountain there is for PAYING(yes, I mean those that don't already have a comp ticket or season pass--those who CONTINUE to bring money) customers.

 

Think about the math here... 200 non paying/season pass holding day skiers/riders. most of which don't pay for food there, most of which order their gear online... think about the cost of staffing camelback... we're talking HUGE costs. It barely warrants staying open during the week, unless it's a holiday--or the conditions are right.

 

Consider how many people visit on an average Saturday, consider 90% of them aren't season passholders... we're talking 900% more money to be made on a weekend, not including food/gear/etc...

 

so, I ask you... from a business standpoint, why shoot themselves in the foot to please those that will complain about it anyway--all the while ruining the mountain for PAYING customers?

 

 

so, we dont spend money on food/services...what else is there? i think you just said pass holders dont have any real value...if you didnt, then what value do we have?

 

at least thats how i understood it

 

 

whoever it was that said CB doesn't care about their customers is full of crap. They definately care about them. Their future depends on it.

 

they could definately show that better

Edited January 19, 2006 by Shadows

[AtomicSkier]

The safety issue? BS. Blue has glazed over, as if someone took a firehouse and sprayed the whole mountain, it was one sheet of ice. But you know what? I loved it! It was not a safety issue, sure that's what the marketing department is going to say, but it was a buisness decision. At Blue, the first persons showed up at 12:30, and at 2:30, there were only ~ 25 people on the mountain. Not a good day for blue, but they were still open, regardless of how icey it was.

 

Im glad i bought my pass at a mountain that doesnt close because of some rain

[Shadows]

The safety issue? BS. Blue has glazed over, as if someone took a firehouse and sprayed the whole mountain, it was one sheet of ice. But you know what? I loved it! It was not a safety issue, sure that's what the marketing department is going to say, but it was a buisness decision. At Blue, the first persons showed up at 12:30, and at 2:30, there were only ~ 25 people on the mountain. Not a good day for blue, but they were still open, regardless of how icey it was.

 

Im glad i bought my pass at a mountain that doesnt close because of some rain

 

 

for real, if they were worried about saftey theyd put more fences up along the sides of the trails.

[4 more wars]

for real, if they were worried about saftey theyd put more fences up along the sides of the trails.

 

part of the inherant risks of using the mountain consist of unprotected ledges.

 

I personally like the added personal risk. It makes it more fun to me. I also know that some people love icey conditions... most people, however, do not. And I haven't heard the first timers at Camelback telling others who are potential customers to "pack your food, trust me you'll be glad you did"

 

usually the ones I hear saying things like that are the passholders--the ones who eat ketchup packets after spending their money traveling to other places.

 

The fact remains, this is the Pocono's. It's not the rockies, or any other range. Even if you brought the clientel and the atmosphere of ANY other ski area on the planet--you still have this weather. For that reason alone, perhaps you should consider a move to some other area of the globe where people are ready to lose 100grand in staffing salary for a day, so that 10 people can complain that the hits suck, the trails were icy and had bald spots...

 

and also, lets not forget--"Camelback shouldn't have been open today, the weather was shit"

 

had they been open, they'd have wished they weren't, because people would have talked so much trash it would have negated the purpose of BEING open today--which would be to please those who have no joy in their lives other than a PERFECT WINTER DAY--which we don't have in the Pocono's.

 

And my employment ANYWHERE has little to nothing to do with my opinions on this situation. If I was an freakin School Janitor, I'd have the same opinion as I do now.

[Ski]

 

 

usually the ones I hear saying things like that are the passholders--the ones who eat ketchup packets after spending their money traveling to other places.

 

 

Man, it's like the ghost of DaveK is typing.

[Papasteeze]

As much as I hate to say it or admit it. If it does not make economical sense to stay open. Then I too would close so that I could be open for next year. When you have more employess on the mountain than you do guests you are going to end up closed permanently if you don't have an extension to the season with epic conditions that allow you to do so.

 

My ski shop is hurting due to this weather, the advid snow lover is hurting, the mountains are hurting, the employees who didn't get to work, who made a late payment due to a "short" check etc etc etc.

 

But imagine how bad things would really be, if that mountain ran itself into the ground. Blue apparently can afford to stay open, Camelback cannot....

 

On the other hand if they would turn those freakin lights off at night - they would save a ton of money.

 

Hey Blue fans? want all the CB fans to come to start coming to your mountain? I bet not..

Edited January 19, 2006 by Papasteeze

[poconoceancity]

CB is much safer with a small crowd when the conditions are bad. It is much more dangerous when they keep selling tickets on a holiday weekend when the mountain is to crowded to maintain safe conditions.

[lastduchess113]

Trust me I tell everybody I see how much Camelback sucks for closing due to freezing rain and no people...I feel like I'm an opinion leader when it comes to ski areas and my opinion of Camelback is lower now than earlier in the season.

 

 

 

I'm a Camelback season pass holder, and I completely agree with their decision. I want them to exist in the future, not be out of business because they were paying lifties to watch empty chairs, instructors to mess around, and the people in the lodge to stare at each other. As far as the people that drove two hours up. I am one of the people that has a two hour drive. And you know what, every morning (or afternoon) before I leave, I glance at the website to see what they've got open, and if the weather reports look remotely sketch I call them and say hey, I've got a two hour ride up there, what's going on for the day. And they're really really honest with you. If it's looking like they're shutting down the east side, they tell you that, if the quads are not going to be running, they tell you that. Everyone has the same opportunity to do so.

 

And Doug, I'm all about constructive criticism, but you take it too far. Could CB have stayed open? Probably. Would it have been productive on here to list reasons they should have, or could have? Yes. Does saying "I tell everybody I see how much Camelback sucks for closing due to freezing rain and no people..." make you sound like an overgrown five year old who's mad at his best friend for taking the best candy? Definitely. When you have something constructive to say about CB like most of the other posts in this thread were designed for, feel free to post back over here. But you're just posting to post, and it just gets annoying.

[poconoceancity]

Does Camelback ever limit ticket sales? I know Blue mountain doesn't. I know Whitetail used to limit ticket sales and sell tickets through ticketmaster. In late December of 2003 it snowed 105 inches in 5 days at Bridger Bowl MT. Two days after the storm when the sun came out, the ski area was so crowded that they ran out of parking spaces and they were sending people away. Liftlines were like 15-20 minutes which is unheard of out there except maybe twice a year.

 

If they truly cared about customer safety they would limit ticket sales.

[Timeless]

If they truly cared about customer safety they would limit ticket sales.

 

It had nothing to do with safety, it was a purely financial decision, anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded.

 

They announced the closure not when it was "glazing over" but when there was no wind and light flurries (I live within a few miles of the hill).

 

It makes (business) sense for them to try and preserve the base they have for the days when they can get maximum return on it.

[Ski]

It's a dark day when skiers start siding with closing a mountain because of lack of attendance. Are you people really concerned that CB will profit $1.2 million instead of $1.4 million this year? You're worried that they'll be driven out of business by dropping their profit margin slightly by being open when there's a breeze and some rain?

 

It's one of the few things a mountain can do to actually give back to the diehard loyalists: be open.

 

I was p*ssed that Montage closed because of high winds at the summit, while the North Face was experiencing 10mph winds, with gusts to 20mph. We didn't even know it was windy! Some ski areas actually build lifts that are wind protected, just to stay open. Montage has a naturally wind protected lift and closed anyway.

 

If they fear people being upset that conditions are too icy, then implement a one hour return policy that so many other mountains have. If after an hour after purchase you find conditions too bad, return for a voucher to ski/board another day.

 

Or, just CLOSE.

[Timeless]

But a rebuttal to that would be that the trails can only get so crowded...due to limited uphill capacity...If there are 10,000 people at Camelback, the trails are not going to be double as crowded as if there were 5,000. It just means longer liftlines.

 

The lift capacity of 18+k /hr should keep the 12 or so trails (top to bottom runs, rather than the 33 claimed) full of at least a couple of hundred people, many more when you factor in the split between expert and noob trails.

 

 

 

for real, if they were worried about saftey theyd put more fences up along the sides of the trails.

 

or insist that people fit tennis balls over those nasty sharp ski pole tips.

[Ski]

But a rebuttal to that would be that the trails can only get so crowded...due to limited uphill capacity...If there are 10,000 people at Camelback, the trails are not going to be double as crowded as if there were 5,000. It just means longer liftlines.

 

Trails bottleneck, so there's no limit to how crowded a trail can get.

[skidude]

Does Camelback ever limit ticket sales? I know Blue mountain doesn't. I know Whitetail used to limit ticket sales and sell tickets through ticketmaster. In late December of 2003 it snowed 105 inches in 5 days at Bridger Bowl MT. Two days after the storm when the sun came out, the ski area was so crowded that they ran out of parking spaces and they were sending people away. Liftlines were like 15-20 minutes which is unheard of out there except maybe twice a year.

They will limit ticket sales, but those days you don't want to be anywhere around CB. Usually they run out of parking first.

[Papasteeze]

Remember how Clark Griswald was when he showed up at Wally World when it was closed...it pisses people off................ Trust me I tell everybody I see how much Camelback sucks for closing due to freezing rain and no people..................I feel like I'm an opinion leader when it comes to ski areas <people> and my opinion of Camelback <cough, doug> is lower now than earlier in the season.

 

Wally World?.......

 

CB sucks? and you tell everyone that? Nice way for a snowlover to show support.

 

And Doug, I'm all about constructive criticism, but you take it too far. But you're just posting to post, and it just gets annoying.

 

 

anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded.

 

That happened to me a couple of times in the early 80's

 

It's one of the few things a mountain can do to actually give back to the diehard loyalists: be open.

 

Now if just one of the multi million dollar a year on-line sellers would give something back..

 

insist that people fit tennis balls over those nasty sharp ski pole tips.

 

HAHAHA Thats a good one!

[skimom]

Man, it's like the ghost of DaveK is typing.

 

A rumor is circulating that he works in the tubing park.

[Schif]

Its not cool at all that a mountain would close. I liked the analogy about movie theatres. We die hards only have a short time each year to fully enjoy our sport. I completely understand the idea that cb would lose money by being open. How much though? If it were a small mountain that is getting by year to year I would be upset, but understand. CB has no reason. Losing some money one night will not drive the monster conglomerate CBH2O into the ground. Its completely unnescessary for a place as big as CB to close for any reason other than complete lack of snow.

[toast21602]

thats actually a very good point.

[Papasteeze]

thats actually a very good point.

 

 

I don't think so, they have to be open any way because most grocery stores restock shelving at night - we are talking one cashier who likely double duties. not a whole staff of skipatrol lifties let along the juice it takes to run a couple people up to the top etc etc

 

 

Edit: oh ! and hate on CB and tell everyone to go to Blue pleeeeease - the more over there the better for me over here...

Edited January 20, 2006 by Papasteeze

[toast21602]

 

 

Edit: oh ! and hate on CB and tell everyone to go to Blue pleeeeease - the more over there the better for me over here...

 

nah i'm not like Doug

 

 

Blue is crowded enough... im gonna start sending people to CB

[skimom]

The real costs of staying open can't be that high - On a night like that, we are talking about keeping one lift open to the top. Lifties don't get paid that much. Caf workers would cover their costs selling warm drinks and food. The rangers and patrol are mostly volunteers. The insurance is already paid, the groomers still have their work and there would be no snowmaking costs. Isn't that the major expense? I wasn't up there, so I have no opinion as to whether it was reasonable to close that night, but I don't see how they could incur huge financial losses by keeping a lift going for hardcore skiers/riders.

[Timeless]

Managed to get up to CB last night for a couple of hours, conditions were great (considering the weather recently), even the more popular trails like Nile were not scraped off and the surface conditions generally were very good. All the trails were open and it was very quiet, mostly just school clubs, it was basically a ride-on to the quads all night.

 

It's good to be back.