K2 just bought Line & Karhu

[Justo8484]

so apparently k2 just bought line skis and karhu. its interesting indeed. i'm thinking it will actually be a good thing, because now line stuff may get to the shop before november. also, wich k2's financial backing, i'm predicting the resurrection of the reactor binding, maybe in conjunction with marker, since k2 also owns them?

[Tyler]

good for k2, line is a quality brand and should rake in some $$

[snorovr]

line is a quality brand

 

 

Ummmm ya... Not after what I've seen.

 

To be fair, Line did have some quality skis, but I see quality in a company as one of those across the board things.

Edited June 1, 2006 by freeridintre

[Shadows]

does k2 have to start making shitty skis now?

[Tyler]

what is karhu anyway?

[toast21602]

http://www.karhu.com/

[skidude]

K2 bought Volkl a few years ago I think. Didn't notice any difference in the Volkls...

[skifreak]

I think K2 bought out Marker and Volkl at the same time. There was a thread about it in the archives. If I remember correctly, ERS started the thread.

[Justo8484]

everyone's definition of quality is different. i dont expect any pair of skis i buy to last more than a season, and my invaders didnt. i wasnt expecting them to. it was a cheap park ski that you can afford to destroy. other than the invaders i've never seen any lines that didnt hold up just as well as any other ski. my brother has a pair of mike nick pros that have held up great. plus line stands behind their product, and are constantly making new innovative products (reactor binding, invader, elizabeth, prophet 130). the only way i see the deal affecting k2, besides bringing them more money, is that IF k2 backs heavy development of the reactor binding, eventually, their skis could come with the inserts that lines had. thats a huge if, but with k2's financial backing and huge support, they could retool the binding so its not quite as awkward as it is now, and completely blow every other binding manufacturer away, because the thing has the potential to be ten times safer than any other binding on the market right now, line just didnt have the money to get all the bugs worked out.

[method9455]

Justo, I'm pretty sure you worked in a shop right? I dunno going into this season Line had a good rep, but 2005-2006 was a bad year.

 

I worked at a shop, and the only skis we had come back for warranty repairs this year were Lines, like 6 pairs. 2 of those pairs were guys at the shop who bought lines (Celebrity & Prophet 80). All 6 pairs delaminated. One pair delaminated before it ever touched snow on the roof rack going from NJ to VT. Thats not a quality ski.

 

They didn't stand behind their product very well at all, they gave the guys that work at my shop credit for an 06-07 ski, but no replacement for this year, and no cash to go and buy another companies ski, so they were SOL for this year, which in my opinion is not standing behind your product.

 

They also didn't stand behind their bindings, someone came in looking for some parts to fix a binding (wide bracket I believe) and we said we'd order it. Call up Line - "uh yea we're getting out of the binding business, don't even have parts for ya" was their response.

 

So will K2 save them? Maybe. Will you see an obvious differance in K2, probably not. Like someone said, K2 and Volkl are the same company, but they even have differant reps that come to the shops and they have differant technologies etc. Besides I believe at some point it is all just owned by Quicksilver so there are a million brands that are all together.

[snorovr]

They didn't stand behind their product very well at all, they gave the guys that work at my shop credit for an 06-07 ski, but no replacement for this year, and no cash to go and buy another companies ski, so they were SOL for this year, which in my opinion is not standing behind your product.

 

They also didn't stand behind their bindings, someone came in looking for some parts to fix a binding (wide bracket I believe) and we said we'd order it. Call up Line - "uh yea we're getting out of the binding business, don't even have parts for ya" was their response.

 

Besides I believe at some point it is all just owned by Quicksilver so there are a million brands that are all together.

 

 

They didn't stand behind their product very well at all, they gave the guys that work at my shop credit for an 06-07 ski, but no replacement for this year, and no cash to go and buy another companies ski, so they were SOL for this year, which in my opinion is not standing behind your product.

 

They also didn't stand behind their bindings, someone came in looking for some parts to fix a binding (wide bracket I believe) and we said we'd order it. Call up Line - "uh yea we're getting out of the binding business, don't even have parts for ya" was their response.

 

Besides I believe at some point it is all just owned by Quicksilver so there are a million brands that are all together.

 

 

I'd disagree on the first point, here is why: Line pretty much admitted to the fact that their shit sucked this year, if they hadn't they would have looked even worse than they did. The logic is fairly simple, if they just send out more stuff that they know is going to fail, then what is the point? Why not wait until next year, when they get the bugs worked out (lets see if they do...) and give your buddies and all the guys and girls who were unfortunate enough to buy Line this year something that they can stand behind. True they did have to put out more coin to get something else, but they are getting something they can sell next season (If anyone wants to buy Line...).

 

 

The second thing you said was just shitty luck. I agree that if a company put out a crappy item, they should still own up to that mistake by supporting that item. Sounds like bad business.

 

Dynastar and Rossi are Quicksilver owned, along with the entire outdoor sports industry it seems like. I don't think K2 is though...

[Justo8484]

I'd disagree on the first point, here is why: Line pretty much admitted to the fact that their shit sucked this year, if they hadn't they would have looked even worse than they did. The logic is fairly simple, if they just send out more stuff that they know is going to fail, then what is the point? Why not wait until next year, when they get the bugs worked out (lets see if they do...) and give your buddies and all the guys and girls who were unfortunate enough to buy Line this year something that they can stand behind. True they did have to put out more coin to get something else, but they are getting something they can sell next season (If anyone wants to buy Line...).

The second thing you said was just shitty luck. I agree that if a company put out a crappy item, they should still own up to that mistake by supporting that item. Sounds like bad business.

 

Dynastar and Rossi are Quicksilver owned, along with the entire outdoor sports industry it seems like. I don't think K2 is though...

 

line has had no problems with replacing every pair of their skis that came back through our shop this year. every time i've had to deal with them i've gotten straight answers and they were very helpful. i'm not going to say that the invaders were bombproof by any means, but we didnt have any other skis from them brought back this year, and we carried the chronics, celebritys and the invader minis. in fact, when my skis started delamming in january, i called line, spoke with kim, and told her what my problem was. she said i could do whatever i needed to to the skis to make them last through the season, as long as i didnt drill them and put rivets in them. she said as long as i stuck to glue, tape, etc. the warrenty would be no questions asked, and i will have a brand new pair of invaders in august or september when they get them into the warehouse. she told me to tell this to any of our customers who had similar issues. as far as the binding issue, i wouldnt really expect a company to stand behing a product they no longer produce, mostly because if they dont produce anymore, there's obviously a good reason. in the case of the bindings, they found out that they were not durable enough for freeride use, so why support something anymore that's not up to par? all our encounters with the binding were the same as with their skis this year. they either credited the person or gave them their money back if the binding broke. customer service wise, i feel like line has been one of the easier companies for me to deal with.

[Papasteeze]

i'm predicting the resurrection of the reactor binding, maybe in conjunction with marker, since k2 also owns them?

 

Good Call. I like the way that binding mechanically works, really like...... If they can lighten it up and make it more durable for the park scene then I think they will have a winner.

[2 planker]

wow K2 owns alot of the ski market it seems i didnt know that. learn something new everyday haha

[Justo8484]

Good Call. I like the way that binding mechanically works, really like...... If they can lighten it up and make it more durable for the park scene then I think they will have a winner.

 

yeah, i feel like there's a huge potential for this to happen now. the release on it is so smooth, you feel virtually no torque on your knee at all, bu it still holds you in when it should. i just hated how high you sit off the ski and how they blew up. the weight didnt really bother me, just because its all under foot, so it doesnt really throw off the swing weight of the ski that much. i'm hoping to see it resurrected and be an option for k2's freeride line in the future as well.

[method9455]

Yea the ski industry is more conglomerated than you'd think.

 

And Justo I agree that sending out the letter that said stick with us we know we had problems, we'll be back next year etc was a stand up move. However we're in the only shop around here that didn't drop line becuase of this season, I know of 3 shops that did. THe only reason we stuck with it is becuase the guy who runs our ski shop is in love with his Prophets. But we had so many issues with them it was a tough call, and we have a tiny order next year from them. As for the bindings, I can see if they weren't servicing them or replacing parts, no big deal. But we were looking for simply a wide brake to mount the binding on another ski. With the freedom plate and all that crap the bindings were obviously intended to be on a lot of differant skis, and this guy only had the normal brake the first time. We called up line to order it after already promising this guy a brake and that was when we found out there was nothing available, they should have at least warned us so we didn't promise this guy something we couldn't deliver. It's possible your rep was better than ours becuase it seems like a lot of our issues are things like, basically no communication between them and us, where as you had that.

 

Its sad but sometimes personalities effect what you can buy at a ski shop. If you come into our shop, you won't be able to get a Nitro board, even if they were good boards, becuase the NJ rep was at one point so bad and ripped our owner off so many times that he just will not buy Nitro boards anymore.

 

Anyway - I certaintly hope they turn it around next year becuase they are sweet skis and its a good company, but they had a lot of issues this year that can only be blamed on trying to cut costs somewhere. THey probably went with cheaper epoxy, I'm not sure why no ski companies use Plexus epoxy yet, but they should.

[Justo8484]

method, who is your line rep? is it stefan by chance? none of my communication with line went through him, i dealt with them over the phone, talking to people at thier headquarters.

[method9455]

I don't know, never met him. Line never did a clinic, no Line rep ever stopped in, was the only one to do that out of Ride Snowboard, Burton, 32, Northwave, GNU, LibTech, Arbor, K2 Snowboard, K2 Ski, Volkl, Rossi, Atomic, Line, and Lange. So yea, no idea.

[Justo8484]

I don't know, never met him. Line never did a clinic, no Line rep ever stopped in, was the only one to do that out of Ride Snowboard, Burton, 32, Northwave, GNU, LibTech, Arbor, K2 Snowboard, K2 Ski, Volkl, Rossi, Atomic, Line, and Lange. So yea, no idea.

sounds like stefan... same thing happened to us a few years back. it sucks, because i love line as a company, and their product really works well for my style of skiing. i think i'm gonna be on the invaders and a pair of prophet 90's next year.