Possible injunction to hold up sale...

[Ski]

Not sure if Commissioner Washo or certain guy on this MB is a bigger A-hole....both seem to hate anything great happening at Montage....amazing how one sh*thead with a chip on his shoulder, mostly because he feels left out and isn't the center of attention, can possibly cause so much damage:

 

Lackawanna County Minority Commissioner Mike Washo is through with simply taking his colleagues to task over their pending sale of Montage Ski Resort.

 

He

[poconoceancity]

Ski,

 

What do you think the end result will be?

[Papasteeze]

wow... that sucks... of course it doesn't surprise me. I guess to me, it fits under the category to good to be true. Bleak......... Hello Nelsap?

[Shadows]

nelsap?

[Schif]

New England Lost Ski Areas Project

 

http://nelsap.org/

[Papasteeze]

You and rob just might be the two most annoying people on the internet.

 

 

Truths hurt. I don't like what is happening to montage, lets get that straight. But hey, why blow sunshine up everyones butt when there are so many clouds?

 

I believe things will get worked out, but not with out a ton of delays and controversery.

[Ski]

From today's T-T:

 

 

Debate over the majority

[Papasteeze]

Is Washo spending his own money to bring this suit? Whats his angle? Why does he care so much that he would wind things up like this? It doesn't make sense.

 

I would think that there would be grounds for a counter suit to hold him liable for any more losses due to delays in the event he his case is dismissed. Where are the attorneys for the good guys?

[Ski]

Is Washo spending his own money to bring this suit? Whats his angle? Why does he care so much that he would wind things up like this? It doesn't make sense.

 

I would think that there would be grounds for a counter suit to hold him liable for any more losses due to delays in the event he his case is dismissed. Where are the attorneys for the good guys?

 

Having a majority and minority commission is an adversarial system by definition. Washo, of course, is the minority commissioner. He doesn't pay for an attorney out of his own pocket for county business. If the case has merit, it'll proceed; if it doesn't, it will likely be dismissed without prejudice.

 

In just about every legal proceeding, attorneys request their fees be paid by the other side. In 99.9% of cases, they are not granted, no matter how frivolous. You have to really piss off a judge to have it happen. And when a judge grants attorney fees to the other side, it's almost an automatic appeal...and appeals are bumped to an appelate court, which means more fees for everyone.

 

The key to this is the appraisal. When the appraisal comes back at $5 million, or so, Washo's arguement disappears. The old timers that got up and shouted that they "knew" Montage was worth $9.6 million will have nothing to say about it.

 

Every expert has said that ski areas aren't where the money is made. You have to have a summer attraction. Sno Mountain LLC intends to build a water park; Snow Time has no summer plans. And it seems that everyone has forgotton that Snow Time did their own valuation---not an appraisal---of Montage two years ago and found it was worth about $4 million. I don't think any pipes fixed themselves since then.

 

What are you worried about, Rob? Nothing to stir shit up about today?

[Papasteeze]

What are you worried about, Rob? Nothing to stir shit up about today?

 

You chose to ignore the fact that I don't like what is happening at Montage (politics) you also choose to ignore what I know about development and brand me as stirring up crap. I still think that snow mountiain is primarily in this for the water park and little else.

 

You took the facts as I know them and labled it as shit, no one else on this board did that. I think it is your own shit you are smelling.

 

toss a rock, why don't you, you love to instigate with personal rebuttals and won't stick to the topic will ya? or are you going to go into one of your typical tirades towards me along with some type of personal insult?

[First Grade Teacher]

I still think that snow mountiain is primarily in this for the water park and little else.

 

 

Why would Sno buy a ski area for $5 million that doesn't have a water park yet? They also agreed to invest $14 million more. Why wouldn't they just take the $19 million and build a water park in a better location?

 

Edited July 27, 2006 by First Grade Teacher

[Ski]

Why would Sno buy a ski area for $5 million that doesn't have a water park yet? They also agreed to invest $14 million more. Why wouldn't they just take the $19 million and build a water park in a better location?

 

 

Well, they are business people that spent a million bucks to research that question and the answer they arrived at was that it was a good deal. Firstly, I'm sure they aren't going to try and lose money on the ski season. Having a ski area and being open during the winter enhances the summer visits. Camelbeach gets more visitors because of skiing at CB, and vice versa.

 

And the price of everything is a lot different up here, as opposed to 'down there'. $19 million would just about get you the right amount of land in the Philly suburbs, but that's about all.

 

Montage is a gem. It's a diamond in the rough. It needs a million in upgrades, just to start with. But when someone comes up with that million, it's then worth twice that.

[First Grade Teacher]

Well, they are business people that spent a million bucks to research that question and the answer they arrived at was that it was a good deal. Firstly, I'm sure they aren't going to try and lose money on the ski season. Having a ski area and being open during the winter enhances the summer visits. Camelbeach gets more visitors because of skiing at CB, and vice versa.

 

And the price of everything is a lot different up here, as opposed to 'down there'. $19 million would just about get you the right amount of land in the Philly suburbs, but that's about all.

 

Montage is a gem. It's a diamond in the rough. It needs a million in upgrades, just to start with. But when someone comes up with that million, it's then worth twice that.

 

Maybe you got me wrong here. I think they are interested in running the ski area. Otherwise they would just take their $19 Million and build a water park. You could build a pretty nice water park for $19 million "up there" if that was all you were interested in.

 

[Ski]

Maybe you got me wrong here. I think they are interested in running the ski area. Otherwise they would just take their $19 Million and build a water park. You could build a pretty nice water park for $19 million "up there" if that was all you were interested in.

 

I really wasn't judging your question one way or another...what's their intent? Why the ski area, too? The prez of Sno Mountain had been in the area and had some connection to bond sales for Lackawanna County, although I don't know the specifics. And Montage struck him as something of interest, so he looked into the possibilities.

 

Having the existing ski area makes a lot of the construction much easier. All the pieces start falling together when you consider what the company looking to start a new ski area from scratch will have to go through. Not exactly the same, but whenever we want to work on our dock at our shore house, we have to be careful about never moving any pilings, and never taking down all four walls...additions are vastly different than new construction.

 

But mostly it comes down to them wanting a four season attraction, is my guess.

[riderossi]

 

 

Mr. Washo reiterated his concern that the deal does not contain adequate protections for county taxpayers, including solid assurances that the buyer will not abandon the ski resort and pursue other uses.

[Papasteeze]

I'm still bothered by the annouced spending of a million dollars investing or speculation on an agreement of sale. Typically - real estate transactions get tied up by a deposit that allows time to do a due diligence investigation. Sort of a good faith gesture.

 

I dunno, I can't imagine someone, anyone, spending that type of money, essentially 20% of the sale price unless they felt that it was "in the bag". They are either flushed with cash and no big deal if they don't get it or.........

[Ski]

This has been my main concern all along. Snow Time runs 3 other ski resorts(?), they are in it for the skiiers and riders. Sno Mountain are a bunch of bankers, money is what they see when they close their eyes at night. I don't see how Cordaro is saying that they don't have an option to sell it, the only restriction i see is the county gets "up to 3.3 million". I haven't read into it so there could be others i don't know about. A single house up in glenmaura sells for that much. The only thing supposedly "stopping" that is that they have to pay the county 3.3 million? Is there any other restrictions on Sno Mountain selling land for homes?

 

Sno Mountain can sell the ski area any time they want...to a company that will continue to run it as a ski area. There is a 10 year obligation to do everything "reasonable" within their power to continue operations.

 

Sno Mountain LLC is spending millions of dollars, so their own best interest is in being a success.

 

Right now, Montage is not a success. It's losing $1million annually and everything is broken. We open late, close early, have limited terrain because of poor snowmaking, and there's no direct lift to the top. How much longer would Lackawanna taxpayers be willing to foot the bill? The ski area was one vote away from shutting down.

 

Sno Mountain wouldn't build lodges and throw millions upon millions of dollars into improvements, then tear everything down and subdivide. That doesn't make sense.

 

I'm still bothered by the annouced spending of a million dollars investing or speculation on an agreement of sale. Typically - real estate transactions get tied up by a deposit that allows time to do a due diligence investigation. Sort of a good faith gesture.

 

I dunno, I can't imagine someone, anyone, spending that type of money, essentially 20% of the sale price unless they felt that it was "in the bag". They are either flushed with cash and no big deal if they don't get it or.........

 

It happens all the time, but it doesn't surprise me that you don't know it.

[Papasteeze]

Sno Mountain... Formed April 06

 

Interesting group of banker investor types - money managers - former heavy equipment company - restaurantuer - computer guy. The head guy is involved with munincipal bonds at Lackawanna and with one for Split Rock for an indoor water park. he was acquitted from a philly "pay-to-play" municipal corruption scandal indictment.

 

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news....16046&rfi=6

 

Ford and Carlson both have children who are well accomplished at the sport.

 

Any idea of who the kids are?

[Papasteeze]

Is Washo spending his own money to bring this suit? Whats his angle? Why does he care so much that he would wind things up like this? It doesn't make sense.

 

 

ruh roh.... crap.... I found what is driving washo. the deal does reek... I mean everyone should get the benefit of the doubt but there is a history and I'm not posting FBI transcripts of wire taps. thats the line... bye bye... I'm done, these are big boys/players....

 

Best of luck.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Papasteeze

[First Grade Teacher]

ruh roh.... crap.... I found what is driving washo. the deal does reek... I mean everyone should get the benefit of the doubt but there is a history and I'm not posting FBI transcripts of wire taps. thats the line... bye bye... I'm done, these are big boys/players....

 

Best of luck.

 

I could care less if the Pope buys it! Who cares who buys it. It's failing now and will probably be shut down soon if there isn't a change. Another prime example of a government agency that should not be involved in private enterprise. Governments have no idea what competition is.

 

[Papasteeze]

 

Sno Mountain wouldn't build lodges and throw millions upon millions of dollars into improvements, then tear everything down and subdivide. That doesn't make sense.

 

 

it makes sense if 400 acres at 70k is the value of the ground that the 14m in improvements is sitting on

 

 

I could care less if the Pope buys it! Who cares who buys it. It's failing now and will probably be shut down soon if there isn't a change. Another prime example of a government agency that should not be involved in private enterprise. Governments have no idea what competition is.

 

 

agreed.....

[Glenn]

For those interested as I was...

 

http://www.google.com/search?hs=Sw&hl=...amp;btnG=Search

 

 

I'm not sure how to take this.

 

On the one hand he was involved with some people doing some things that weren't so honest. On the other hand, the only charges brough against him were related to what would appear to be covering up for his friends. Those charges failed in court due to technicalities.

 

So... he may or may not be the most honest guy, but, at the same time there are no indications that he directly pulls shady moves.

 

At the same time, it is clear he has dealt with government types before and knows what it takes to make moves regarding the government. He seems to have put together a team of people ready to do postitive things for the ski area, not a team of people to tear the place down.

 

That bit about 70K per acre is a bit hard to swallow... do you really think it's worth that much Rob? I suppose the land value will skyrocket if/when the proposed NY/Scranton ultra high-speed train arrives. Do you think this guy is camping on the land until the value shoots through the rough. Yikes...

 

The proposed plans for the place sound awsome though, I hate to ruin the great vibe thats going on in regards to what looks to be happening in the near future. New snow making, park improvements, a TOP TO BOTTOM HIGH SPEED LIFT!!!! Things are looking up for montage/sn

[Sno Mountain Skier]

 

That bit about 70K per acre is a bit hard to swallow... do you really think it's worth that much Rob?

Probally a little bit more than that. My house which is on a quater acre lot cost 50. In glenmaura, an acre lot could definetly go for 70k+. So They could definetly do it for more than 70k in 10 years, when all of those lots will be gone in glenmaura.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Sno Mountain Skier

[Papasteeze]

Land prices are through the roof. 70k per acre is quoted from Mr Ford as being the value. I doubt Mr Ford would publicly over value an acre there.

 

That location is central on a major feeder with a ton of ammenities close by, read: location, location, location. Comparitively to demographics in our area 70k is a steal of a deal. I think I read that in close proximity, the median price is at 330k and there are homes over 1m in the same area. 20% raw land to house price is a typical ratio. I don't know the net buildable area (there are afterall steep slopes!) I would think 2 units per acre would be a reasonable assumption given public water and sewer.

[riderossi]

it makes sense if 400 acres at 70k is the value of the ground that the 14m in improvements is sitting on

 

I agree ( hopefully i won't get personal attacks and flamed for saying that ). Although i don't know how much an acre would go for, i have no idea. But they are bankers, who is to say they aren't going to 'cut someone a deal' when they are looking to build a house to get that person to go through their banks for the loans..more cash in their pockets. I don't know if there are any legal restrictions against using a bank that is that far away from the house site or something like that...again just throwing things out there. Sure they are going to spend millions on snowmaking and other improvements, but do you think there is no re-sale value on any of that equipment? Hopefully it all works out the way most of us want it to.