Smart Style 2.0

[skidude]

NSAA PREPARING TO LAUNCH NEW VERSION OF SMARTSTYLE

September 19, 2006

 

SAM Magazine

[DHarrisburg]

Ugh, I hate SmartStyle.

 

Yeah, you heard that right.

[Papasteeze]

Good find Skidude.

[method9455]

Smart Style is fucking retarded. We don't need crpytic messages, we need a sign that says

 

1) Call your drop

2) Clear landings quickly after falling, don't sit in blindspots

3) Check out features daily before hitting them

4) Only hit things you are capable of

5) You are responsible for your own safety

6) Breaking these rules will get your pass clips

 

not "legs have cute sayings as we try to pretend we're cool"

[DHarrisburg]

Smart Style is fucking retarded. We don't need crpytic messages

 

It started as a decent program but it has since been morphed into the annoying battlecry of new park riders.

[skidude]

Smart Style is fucking retarded. We don't need crpytic messages, we need a sign that says

 

1) Call your drop

2) Clear landings quickly after falling, don't sit in blindspots

3) Check out features daily before hitting them

4) Only hit things you are capable of

5) You are responsible for your own safety

6) Breaking these rules will get your pass clips

 

not "legs have cute sayings as we try to pretend we're cool"

 

 

But...but....but...thats not all PC

[Papasteeze]

Smart Style is fucking retarded. We don't need crpytic messages, we need a sign that says

 

1) Call your drop

2) Clear landings quickly after falling, don't sit in blindspots

3) Check out features daily before hitting them

4) Only hit things you are capable of

5) You are responsible for your own safety

6) Breaking these rules will get your pass clips

 

not "legs have cute sayings as we try to pretend we're cool"

 

not a bad point at all... because from a safety standpoint that is a brutally honest way to put it. It's in your face, nothing open for interpretation. Something you hard headed park rats can understand. I like it.

[Shadows]

Something you hard headed park rats can understand.

 

that must be our helmets

[skidude]

not a bad point at all... because from a safety standpoint that is a brutally honest way to put it. It's in your face, nothing open for interpretation. Something you hard headed park rats can understand. I like it.

 

If your in the park all day...You better know your not supposed to sit on the landing of a jump if you fall there....If your in the park all day and don't know that, you deserve whatever you get

[snorovr]

Ya I've never really liked the Smart Style program. I posted it up because it is the only thing there is that is "official." I always felt as though it came across as trying to be too cool, and because of that the people who really need to benefit from it get nothing from it. No one outside of people who spend alot of time in the park understands it, which has always made me wonder what good it is. Young people think its dumb, older people don't understand it, seems like a waste of a paint and wood to me. Maybe time for some sweeping change...

[Glenn]

Ya I've never really liked the Smart Style program. I posted it up because it is the only thing there is that is "official." I always felt as though it came across as trying to be too cool, and because of that the people who really need to benefit from it get nothing from it. No one outside of people who spend alot of time in the park understands it, which has always made me wonder what good it is. Young people think its dumb, older people don't understand it, seems like a waste of a paint and wood to me. Maybe time for some sweeping change...

 

 

How about park crews enforcing this kind of stuff. Hanging out on landings, and not calling drops just shouldn't happen. They are as important if not more so than not racing through beginner areas, and not yielding to downhill skiers.

 

Spotting landings first time through, trying to go too big etc, is all about personal discretion anyways. I doubt that anyone really changed their mind about how big to go after reading an easy style sign. That part can be done away with. Make the pertinant stuff part of the skier responsibility code, and start enforcing it. Also... if we are trying to change the the responsibility code: snowboarders don't need leashes, most leashes cannot be worn while hiking, and bindings simply don't come off of snowboards nor to boots seperate from bindings.

[snorovr]

How about park crews enforcing this kind of stuff. Hanging out on landings, and not calling drops just shouldn't happen. They are as important if not more so than not racing through beginner areas, and not yielding to downhill skiers.

 

Spotting landings first time through, trying to go too big etc, is all about personal discretion anyways. I doubt that anyone really changed their mind about how big to go after reading an easy style sign. That part can be done away with. Make the pertinant stuff part of the skier responsibility code, and start enforcing it. Also... if we are trying to change the the responsibility code: snowboarders don't need leashes, most leashes cannot be worn while hiking, and bindings simply don't come off of snowboards nor to boots seperate from bindings.

 

 

We cannot really enforce stuff. That seems to be a job for ski patrol. Park crues job is the maintenance of the park, not the enforcement of proper park etiquette. Its just a bad situation in the parks out here. No one really knows how to treat them. Ski areas and their parks are more of an amusement park and less of a destination. When people go out west the majority of them know how to ski at least on blue squares and know the rules of the road and know how to handle themselves accordingly. The one or two weekend a year people that patronize many of the mountains we ski and board at don't spend enough time on the slopes to get to know these rules that are understood by people that use the mountains more often.

 

Last year we had some interesting run ins with customers. When we close off a feature we do so by setting up obstacles with our equipment (X with skis when possible or lay snowboards on their edges perpendicular to the snow) so as to block the in run to the feature. You would think that people would get the hint that maybe they should bypass this feature on that particular run down the park, but no. Every night we would have people crash through our gear and then hit the feature while we were working on it. Setup a sign you say? Nope. Tried that too and people would just go around it.

 

People who aren't on the mountain that often have no idea what the language is up there, and that is one of the areas where I think Smart Style fails. It is written in the language of people who are engrossed in the sport, exactly who it should not be targetting. I think its a great idea to have SOMETHING at the entrances to parks and posted on lift towers etc..., but the current Smart Style isn't doin it for our local hills. Wonder if Smart Style beta will do anything...

[Papasteeze]

We cannot really enforce stuff. That seems to be a job for ski patrol. Park crues job is the maintenance of the park, not the enforcement of proper park etiquette.

 

The one or two weekend a year people that patronize many of the mountains we ski and board at don't spend enough time on the slopes to get to know these rules that are understood by people that use the mountains more often.

 

 

Dude, It is my opinion that you are part of the problem or part of the solution. Get off the park crew and onto the ski patrol if park education is truly a concern to you. It was amazing to get repremanded by the park crew at CB for holding jumps. Ski Patrol came to mediate and told me that I couldn't stand in front of the jump and "hold it" to allow people skilled enough drop in from the height needed to making the landing area. Kids screaming DROP from a hundred yards atop of helmeted noobs was doing nothing to keep them from getting cut off.

 

I think that will change with the park pass program at CB now.

 

If parks keep progressing and expanding and if they keep selling the amount of tickets per acre in our area, the only solution will be spotters on the jumps just like they do in competitions who signal all clear to the next person waiting in line at the designated drop in point. That in itself will educate so many in one season on what and how to conduct themselves when they visit again.

 

Tell me why park crew can't take some time out to do some spotting periodically? Are you even allowed to do that or is there liability involved because you waived someone on?

 

 

CB_Crowd_control..bmp

How about park crews enforcing this kind of stuff. Hanging out on landings, and not calling drops just shouldn't happen. They are as important if not more so than not racing through beginner areas, and not yielding to downhill skiers.

 

Here is a typical day at CB

 

Notice the 2 guys holding the jump? people sitting in the landing zone, Now that I think about it, this is just a great example of a poor layout which is the park crews responsibility, correct?

Edited September 20, 2006 by Papasteeze

[Papasteeze]

Park Crues job is to build and maintain features in the park...not be spotters. Calling Park Crue part of the problem is like the pot calling the kettle black since you were there holding up jumps at Camelback. Doesn't that make you part of the problem??? So park crue and the ski patrol yelled at you? Why would they do that?

 

 

They said that I was a lawsuit waiting to happen. I told them I would take my chances with that. I was dealing with park crew who were sitting off in the trees laughing at the people wiping out on that jump who would occasionally rake out a bomb crater at the bottom of a 10' box. They thought the wrecks were there own comedy show. Keep in mind this was at CB. Patrol didn't yell, they just said basically that customers are not allowed to conduct crowd control.

 

I am saying that park crew is part of the problem if they complain about etiquette and then say "it's not my job" I doubt there is a line item in thier job description that tells them they are not to be actively involved with patrons education and subsequent safety. I could be wrong.

 

If you think that my holding of jumps forcing people to look above before they drop and to clear the landings is part of the problem then I rest my case on why you shouldn't be let in the parks.

 

I shouldn't even reply to you, but it is clear that you need some educating if you think that holding jumps is a problem. Just doing my part to educate another noob.

 

 

 

[snorovr]

Dude, It is my opinion that you are part of the problem or part of the solution. Get off the park crew and onto the ski patrol if park education is truly a concern to you.

 

If parks keep progressing and expanding and if they keep selling the amount of tickets per acre in our area, the only solution will be spotters on the jumps just like they do in competitions who signal all clear to the next person waiting in line at the designated drop in point. That in itself will educate so many in one season on what and how to conduct themselves when they visit again.

 

Tell me why park crew can't take some time out to do some spotting periodically? Are you even allowed to do that or is there liability involved because you waived someone on?

Now that I think about it, this is just a great example of a poor layout which is the park crews responsibility, correct?

 

 

Yes I am part of the problem in the park. C'mon Papa... Not a very good opinion, in my opinion.

 

I do agree that park crews could be part of the solution. How so I don't really know. I'm not sure if we are allowed to spot, but to be honest I don't think I would. Part of skiing park is having a buddy spot. No one does because everyone wants to hit everything on every run. If people jump over our gear and knock us over while we are fixing features, the how will a spotter stop someone from going off of a jump. Give them guns?

[Glenn]

I'll probobly catch some flack for this but.... CB's park crew is worthless. They claim that managment sandbags them with setups, but they really do nothing to help the situation. As papa mentioned they typically sit in the trees right next the to the flat down box, and laugh at people. They could just as easily stand on top of one of the jumps with two ski poles and spot the landings... or attempt to enforce drop rules by standing where everyone drops from or any number of other things to improve park ettiquette. Each mountain has different organization and different amounts of work for park crews. I'm not going to say that Blue mountain park crew is lazy, because quite frankly the only time I've ever seen them is while they are fixing features. I don't see them on every run, so maybe they are hiding elsewhere, but I haven't seen them heckling patrons, or sitting in the woods too stoned to be productive. What I will say is, in general park crews could probobly do more and make efforts to help enforce park manners rather than saying it's someone elses problem.... ESPECIALLY when park crew knows more about how a park should operate than any other mountain organization (patrol, ranger etc).

 

On the other hand, I have to agree crowd control should not be a customer affair. Spotting is different than attempting to herd people.

[method9455]

Back to the point, all these signs are not intended for people who ride park all day, they are intended for people who never ride park. If the sign is there and bold, then people can't say "I didn't know". Then when you go over a jump and someone is teaching their kid who to ski on a leash on the other side, you can say HEY didn't you read the sign? I'm going to get your pass clipped. Not, hey don't you know park etiquette? And the person replies, yea YOU have to watch out for people below you. And then I say I couldn't see you until I was in the air. And they say, well you shouldn't have been going so fast!

 

Smart Style is worthless, park crew or not this is about Smart Style and I think we need to do something to change it.

[Glenn]

Smart Style is worthless, park crew or not this is about Smart Style and I think we need to do something to change it.

 

... my point is smart style is worthless because there is no enforcement. I think park crew could be a piece to the puzzle in that change you desire.

[snorovr]

We are going to try some new things up at Blue. I've talked to people in the past who shouldn't be in the park, and most of them are glad to oblige to go down Lazy and to the lower park or lower sidewinder. We can't really clip passes or things like that if it is a trail that they have every right to be on, even if they shouldn't be there.

[DHarrisburg]

It'd be a little better if the system didn't contradict itself. In the situation Method gave (somebody loitering in the landing of a jump) the person jumping could easily say "Didn't you read the sign? You shouldn't hang out on landings of jumps!" but will immediately be met with "Yeah well you should have a spotter!!"

 

Having spotters for jumps is by far the worst idea I've ever heard. It is completely unrealistic and is never utilized. The only time I've ever seen anything remotely close to spotters for jumps is if you are waiting to drop and it is clear that the person who just went slammed. Usually you try to get the attention of someone who can see the landing and then ask them if it's clear, or someone will sacrifice their turn to go check the jump, signaling from the knuckle if the landing is clear. The idea of having a buddy who's sole job is to check every landing before you hit the jump is silly and unrealistic, especially when you consider that mountains build multiple jump lines.

 

An extremely easy way to tell if someone is familiar with park riding and etiquette is if they mention spotters.

[Papasteeze]

An extremely easy way to tell if someone is familiar with park riding and etiquette is if they mention spotters.

 

not sure if you mean that to be a good thing or a bad thing.

 

No offense DH but how many days did you ride here on the east coast last season? Every Western park that we have ever been to in the west does not have the crowd problems that the east does. If there is a crowd on a western jump it usually has several people filming with an area to the side that you can observe from. If someone wrecks and can't be seen from above it is those people I have seen clearing the landing, waving off the next drop in. Etiquette/spotting/traffic control whatever you want to call it..

 

When you have one jump line that has rails stuck in the middle of an in run to a jump with a congestion of a hundred people one tenth the size the of a western run you are talking about hundreds of times the congestion.

 

How can you say that traffic control and or spotting is not a smart thing to have for the enjoyment and safety of everyone. I am not talking about the buddy system, I am talking about resort staff taking the responsibility. Where is the negative, the cost, the liability?

 

Look, I have seeen my kid nearly decapitate someone because they came into a table from my blindside, I have seen him come down the side of the pipe into a leash, I have seen him dozens of times have to pull up because someone cut him off. I have hustled him off a landing by going as far as picking him up because the next person hasn't waited to see if the jump is clear. Every season, it gets worse.

 

And Tre.. I am not talking about you directly, I know you. You help out a lot. I am talking about the attitude that it isn't park crews place to help educate, that it isn't "crews" job. You are on the park crew because you like racing and need a pass? think not. you are on park crew because you love to shovel heavy stuff? doubt it. You are park crew because you need a job to pay your bills? HA! You are probably on park crew because it is cool. It would really be cool if crews stepped up to the plate and help teach people.

 

All I am saying is that if Ski patrol will not/does not police the parks - then next in line is the "crew" and if neither is going to do it, I certainly will for the safety of my kid, number one - to help teach others, secondary.

[method9455]

In all my time riding park I've only used a spotter once. And that was becuase it was my girlfriend who didn't ride park yet and would stand on the deck of the jump to make sure it was clear, becuase it was a super crowded park and I had just hit a kid. It only worked becuase I could see the jump before dropping, this system would never work at Mountain Creek where aside from the first jump you need to drop from a place where you can not see the jump itself.

 

I agree, contradictions won't work. But I also think a spotter would be unnecesary in a system of park passes and park etiquette. If someone in front of me falls, I skip the jump but I usually stop on the deck next to the ramp to see if hes ok and if someone is dropping point to the person so they know to skip it. If someone gets injured leave your board across the ramp so people know (or X ur skis up there), but generally most people fall , slide, and can sit on the side of the trail to catch their breath, the ones who chill in the landing are the problem. Usually it is people who see the knuckle as a great place to sit down and put their board over the edge like a seat, I've run into that a lot. They have no idea its a jump.

[snorovr]

1) Every Western park that we have ever been to in the west does not have the crowd problems that the east does.

 

2)When you have one jump line that has rails stuck in the middle of an in run to a jump with a congestion of a hundred people one tenth the size the of a western run you are talking about hundreds of times the congestion.

 

3)How can you say that traffic control and or spotting is not a smart thing to have for the enjoyment and safety of everyone. I am not talking about the buddy system, I am talking about resort staff taking the responsibility. Where is the negative, the cost, the liability?

 

4)And Tre.. I am not talking about you directly, I know you. You help out a lot. I am talking about the attitude that it isn't park crews place to help educate, that it isn't "crews" job. You are on the park crew because you like racing and need a pass? think not. you are on park crew because you love to shovel heavy stuff? doubt it. You are park crew because you need a job to pay your bills? HA! You are probably on park crew because it is cool. It would really be cool if crews stepped up to the plate and help teach people.

 

All I am saying is that if Ski patrol will not/does not police the parks - then next in line is the "crew" and if neither is going to do it, I certainly will for the safety of my kid, number one - to help teach others, secondary.

 

 

1) Amen! I've seen some sillyness in parks out west, but I can count the number of times on one hand, and you can be sure it wasn't by some locals.

 

2) I'm basically repeating what you said, but I agree. Parks around here have generally been given a narrowish trail with a low grade. Hopefully now that mountains are widening terrain (Blue) and dedicating more of it to parks (Boulder), some of those congestion issues will ease up a bit. I've felt that although Bear has always had some of the best terrain for their parks, the in runs are what kill them. That area in the tubing section has sooooo much potential. Rope tow please?

 

3) Opinion: I don't want the park to become a place of red and yellow jackets. We need people what want to be in the park to be there, not the people who kinda cruised on down to enjoy the scenery. This is one of the goals of the Good News II thread. We need ideas to keep the park as limited as possible to those who know the rules and are there on purpose. Gates and mounds are the ones I've heard. My own opinion is that there needs to be something which requires the user to take off their gear to enter. Steps, barbed wire, etc... There are alot floatin around between park crew members and people up at Blue who are pretty much residents, but the best ideas often come from the places where no one looks. Please don't mention park passes.

 

4) I know you weren't. I was pullin your chain a lil bit. I would love for park crew to be able to help with educating the masses, but the way in which we would do has been a topic of more than a few discussions. If you hand out brochures or little leaflets, you'd have an even bigger littering problem. I've found Blue Mountain trash on the AT... Sux. Personally I do park crew because I like to ride features that are maintained and I know my buddies do too. Its sweet to see someone you know and have them throw a thanks your way because the lip to the last feature they nailed was spot. I've been educating by coaching Freeriders. This is where I get most of my knowledge of how flawed park education and Smart Style is. Try telling a 9 year old, "Respect gets respect," and asking them what that means. Its not educating everyone. But its something...

[DHarrisburg]

 

 

No offense DH but how many days did you ride here on the east coast last season?

 

How many days did you ride in parks on the east coast?

 

I think you are quick to forget that I grew up riding parks of the east coast. I have just as much experience, if not more, with the problems of layout, congestion, and complete ignorance to park etiquette. I've been riding park for eight years now and I have seen the good, the bad, and the extremely ugly. Please don't try to say that I don't know the problems of east coast parks.

 

 

How can you say that traffic control and or spotting is not a smart thing to have for the enjoyment and safety of everyone.

 

I never said it wasn't smart, I said it was a bad idea. Sure, in a wonderful land of happiness we'd have spotters on lifeguard chairs for every feature. In the real world, where parks are often viewed as a money and liability hole and barely get enough funding as is it is completely unrealistic. Park crews are there to maintain the features, ski patrol could care less about the park. I'd much rather see mountains start park passes and pay for one person to check them at the top of the run rather than pay six people to sit next to jumps and try to get clueless beginners to follow rules that they don't know exist.

 

Look, I have seeen...

 

This is the problem, Rob. You have become the all-seeing watchdog of the parks in Pennsylvania. When I rode in PA we would police our own parks. If we had someone snake us or if somebody was lying in the jump they'd either get knocked over or yelled at, possibly both. This was the only way we'd make sure that the person breaking etiquette would either shape up or ship out. Now that parks have become more popular and resorts have realized that they're not complete wastes of money they're becoming the (to quote someone earlier in this thread) "amusement park" of the mountain. Everyone is dealt with kiddy gloves so that no paying customer is offended and nobody goes home angry. You can add all the rules you want but you're ignoring the biggest fact in the world: nobody gives a shit about rules when they're on vacation.

 

 

All I am saying is that if Ski patrol will not/does not police the parks - then next in line is the "crew" and if neither is going to do it, I certainly will for the safety of my kid, number one - to help teach others, secondary.

 

Hey, feel free to spot jumps. Just realize that you're paying $45 a day to do it. I have to poop and then I have to go to work so I'll leave it at that.

[swdorsey]

papa pleae never make fun of a park crew person agan. i cant believe that you are saying that people are in it to be cool. i think that everyone on the crew (all mountains) is dedicated to making the park as good as it can be and most work their asses off to help do this. shoveling snow instead of skiing isnt cool, its just a thing we enjoy doing to better the park for everyone. At bear we often pull people aside and ask them to go to our family fun park and explain the dangers of what they are doing wrong. this is the first step i think. out west bad stuff never happens for a reason. the locals have established a system to tell when to and not to jump and i think we need to do the same. at most places and x with the arms signifies someone hass fallen and and o with the arms means its clear again. when u dont obey people go ape shit on you and you learn quickly. there is no park crew guys tellin people what to do or smart style signs, its just respect. think about that everyone thats been out west and its clearly true.