Papasteeze Posted October 27, 2006 Report Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) OK - This is the first mountain to do this, so please, out of respect, be nice. This year marks the Camelback Mountain School Edited October 27, 2006 by Papasteeze
sibhusky Posted October 27, 2006 Report Posted October 27, 2006 INCREDIBLE. Now why have they never gotten behind the race team like this?
Papasteeze Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Posted October 27, 2006 INCREDIBLE. Now why have they never gotten behind the race team like this? I have never seen a flyer for the CAT team like this but it would read the same way if there was one except with the photo video analysis. First mountain to do what? To have an association with the USASA competitions - the coaches have to have USASA training - I know Whaleback has this, Killy too, I am sure there are others.
snorovr Posted October 27, 2006 Report Posted October 27, 2006 Sounds cool. I hope they have good luck with their freeride program. Its hard work but a lot of fun.
Justo8484 Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 papa, i'm sure you already know this, but usasa is a huge load of shit. it may mean something elsewhere in the country, but in eastern PA, its a joke. kev, miller and i all did it last season. we placed top three in every comp we did, without really trying. i'm not trying to talk any of us up or anything, but to place that well in a comp without giving it your all really says something about the level of competition. i think it's headed in the right direction in the sense that to be viewed as legitimate and have some sort of larger scale funding come to our sport, we need to have an organized series that is judged on the same criteria nationwide. however, there are problems with the system too, as there are with any sort of competition. with usasa, the only draw is nationals, and its really unclear as far as what going to nationals gets you, besides an expensive plane ticket and hotel stay somewhere out west. it costs $25 per event, plus lift tickets, and there are really no prizes given away at the events. out of the entire series last year, i came away with a stick of chapstick and a dakine pack that i won in a raffle. after the second comp, i really wasnt motivated to finish out the series because there's really nothing to gain. the talent pool is so limited and the prizes and sponsorships just arent there. i wish camelback luck, because the more kids who actually know how to ride a park safely, the better, but i dont feel that the association with usasa makes the program any better than what blue, or bear this year, is doing, besides that its structure in the manner in which the race programs are, that their is strong parent backing with fundraisers and the whole "team" aspect of it, but that may not be a good thing anyway.
skidude Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 papa, i'm sure you already know this, but usasa is a huge load of shit. it may mean something elsewhere in the country, but in eastern PA, its a joke. kev, miller and i all did it last season. we placed top three in every comp we did, without really trying. i'm not trying to talk any of us up or anything, but to place that well in a comp without giving it your all really says something about the level of competition. i think it's headed in the right direction in the sense that to be viewed as legitimate and have some sort of larger scale funding come to our sport, we need to have an organized series that is judged on the same criteria nationwide. however, there are problems with the system too, as there are with any sort of competition. with usasa, the only draw is nationals, and its really unclear as far as what going to nationals gets you, besides an expensive plane ticket and hotel stay somewhere out west. it costs $25 per event, plus lift tickets, and there are really no prizes given away at the events. out of the entire series last year, i came away with a stick of chapstick and a dakine pack that i won in a raffle. after the second comp, i really wasnt motivated to finish out the series because there's really nothing to gain. the talent pool is so limited and the prizes and sponsorships just arent there. i wish camelback luck, because the more kids who actually know how to ride a park safely, the better, but i dont feel that the association with usasa makes the program any better than what blue, or bear this year, is doing, besides that its structure in the manner in which the race programs are, that their is strong parent backing with fundraisers and the whole "team" aspect of it, but that may not be a good thing anyway. If more people get into USASA comps, they might get better...I'm trying to think of what USSA races would be like without mountain teams...There much more competitive since all the mountain teams are. Who knows how its going to turn out, but either way, it will give Skierforever a group to hate more than the race team
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 it will give Skierforever a group to hate more than the race team Ha, that's a a nice benefit to the race team. And you just know the Rangers are going to be watching them closely...very closely.
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 Justo, I understand and recognize what you are saying. The problem is, that it is the only large scale structured freestyle comp excluding USSA moguls and aerials ---- oh did you see 1/2 pipe comps in the NorAm this year? thats a good thing, Although I think it's a year too late for 2010 ----- I dunno man... I am encouraging nips to participate in the interest of helping it grow. What skidude is saying is right on. In 2 short seasons that I have been actively involved with parks, I have noticed that the mountains are listening and changing, improving the park venues every year. I like how you can enter the program at any of the comps, it doesn't require 4 different organizations to join before you can compete. They can't make it any easier other than have the mountains offer a lift ticket special to boost the attendance. Yeah the rewards of the competitions are lame comparitively to the local events. I think the problem is the point system. there needs to be an interim competition, local, regional then National - It's too Nastarish right now. Ha, that's a a nice benefit to the race team. And you just know the Rangers are going to be watching them closely...very closely. funny you mentioned that, I sent and email in response to the invite on whether the rangers and patrol were going to be trained in recognizing off-axis spins or whether they were going to relax the no-invert signage. ---- no answer yet. INCREDIBLE. Now why have they never gotten behind the race team like this? another thought; let me try to quote, "Rob, we recognize where the future of snow sports is going" I can't remember the rest.
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 I'm a little confused: when did kids wanting to be the best get turned off because there wasn't enough swag? I understand and believe that mountains should give discounted lift tickets, but getting motivation from merchandise is---IMHO---sorta lame. (I wonder if that will offend some people....)
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 Freestyle comps are all about what the prizes are. BTW, not to open a can of worms judging freestyle comps and scoring a time are two entirely different disciplines, hence two entirely different atmospheres, subsequently different persona.
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Freestyle comps are all about what the prizes are. That's clearly your opinion. Winning crap you may or may not already have, as opposed to having kids strive to be their best for the sake of being a champion---or reaching goals---isn't in the mix for people like you. Now, there's a revelation! Do you honestly believe it's better that way? To have a bunch of kids show up and ski/board to win a pair of goggles as a prize? Is that really better than having them compete to take pride in doing their best? If my kid ever didn't want to compete because there wasn't enough shit given away, I think I'd stop driving her and have her get a job at some mall. another thought; let me try to quote, "Rob, we recognize where the future of snow sports is going" I can't remember the rest. Uh, yeah, sure...pffft. That's as made up as your resume.
snorovr Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 That's clearly your opinion. Winning crap you may or may not already have, as opposed to having kids strive to be their best for the sake of being a champion---or reaching goals---isn't in the mix for people like you. Now, there's a revelation! Do you honestly believe it's better that way? To have a bunch of kids show up and ski/board to win a pair of goggles as a prize? Is that really better than having them compete to take pride in doing their best? If my kid ever didn't want to compete because there wasn't enough shit given away, I think I'd stop driving her and have her get a job at some mall. Uh, yeah, sure...pffft. That's as made up as your resume. Its honestly closer to fact than you might think Ski. Right now unless they're full on sponsored, most kids do think about the amount of stuff that is given as prizes in comps and base where they go upon that. You can be sure that alot of people will show up if you have a 5,000 dollar purse and 1,000 bux as your first prize. The way I see people get sponsored in skiing is mostly through media, which you can easily get a ton of at any comp. USASA venues are actually the hardest to film at because they keep them so tightly run. People sending promo media to companies is the majority of who gets sponsorships of the people that don't follow the race way and go to summercamp and train all year. It is much more rare to have someone that gets a hookup through firsthand recognition of their talet. I don't know a ton about racing culture, and maybe you'll have some better insight on thist, but the impression that I'm under is that most racers are sponsored through firsthand recognition on the slopes and standings in nationwide rankings. Newschooling kids wanna do their best, but in this day its their best so long as there is immediate gratitude or some guaranteed hookup. I haven't met a ton of kids who want to participate in a structured system like USASA, especially if they aren't hookin it up with all kinds of free gear, when their buddies who are doing local and company run jams are walking around with the latest gear that they won. I definitely see the benefit in having a structured system for ranking would have, like racing has, but right now it just doesn't seem to be the way that things are going from my standpoint.
Glenn Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Winning crap you may or may not already have, as opposed to having kids strive to be their best for the sake of being a champion---or reaching goals---isn't in the mix for people like you. Now, there's a revelation! For me at least, a competition absolutely would need some decent prizes to show up. Freestyle riding is about style... poetry in motion if you will. I could care less how I stack up against the next guy, competition has little or nothing to do with what freetyle riding means to me. Videos are what you strive towards, not the top of a ranked list like in racing. I'm sure others feel differently, but I thought I'd put my two cents in on the subject.
DHarrisburg Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 That's clearly your opinion. Winning crap you may or may not already have, as opposed to having kids strive to be their best for the sake of being a champion---or reaching goals---isn't in the mix for people like you. Now, there's a revelation! You're confusing ski racing (or any other sport, for that matter) with snowboarding. There are infinite ways of proving your superior skills, and competition is only one of those methods. Trying to compare the areas of judging in a slopestyle or pipe contest to "get to the bottom as fast as possible" is apples and oranges. If I can "prove that I am the best" by filming locally what is the point of traveling anywhere from one to twelve hours to a contest? I'm not going to say that prizes are the only reason to do contests, but they are definitely a major deciding factor on what contests I enter.
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 Uh, yeah, sure...pffft. That's as made up as your resume. Nice real nice that you typically reduced something I said to another typical personal inflammatory ski remark. LOL - time to get with the times or get left behind with the likes of skiforever. What? do you want the phone number of the director who told me that so that you can verify it? Such denial to the obvious. I have no reason to lie. It's not rocket science ski, the racing ranks are leveling or diminishing and the parks are exploding. Why would you not take your girl to the snow if she wanted to compete? Because there were prizes for being judged the best? Way to go, dad. I believe that parks evolved as this generations answer to the typical anti-establishment thing. Skiing was big years ago, then snow sport particpation waned until the Burton wave washed over everything. The parks are the progression. Question is: Whats after parks? Urban rails and jibs seem to be what is hot right now. Whats next? We figure to go really urban, drop out of an apartment window on fifth street to a snow plowed lip, tap a snow covered BMW up onto a moving box truck and land on the other side of the snow plowed street. Freestyle comps are all about what the prizes are. BTW, not to open a can of worms judging freestyle comps and scoring a time are two entirely different disciplines, hence two entirely different atmospheres, subsequently different persona. read it, study it, that is what it is, as DH said, apples and oranges.
DHarrisburg Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 We figure to go really urban, drop out of an apartment window on fifth street to a snow plowed lip, tap a snow covered BMW up onto a moving box truck and land on the other side of the snow plowed street. Rob, you're playing too many videogames
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Nice real nice that you typically reduced something I said to another typical personal inflammatory ski remark. LOL - time to get with the times or get left behind with the likes of skiforever. What? do you want the phone number of the director who told me that so that you can verify it? Such denial to the obvious. I have no reason to lie. It's not rocket science ski, the racing ranks are leveling or diminishing and the parks are exploding. Why would you not take your girl to the snow if she wanted to compete? Because there were prizes for being judged the best? Way to go, dad. I believe that parks evolved as this generations answer to the typical anti-establishment thing. Skiing was big years ago, then snow sport particpation waned until the Burton wave washed over everything. The parks are the progression. If you have no reason to lie, then why do you do it so often, Rob? A dad that teaches his kid that winning swag should the driving factor in competition, as opposed to all the positive goal oriented messages available, is blowing what could be a lifelong lesson. Yeah, it's a lot harder to help your kid build good character; it's a lot easier to dangle swag instead of committment to competition. Freeridintre might be interested to know that virtually no junior ski racers are sponsored. Thousands of kids--the vast majority that's probably 99.99%--do it simply for the love of the sport. Ski and board shops don't seem to have a problem throwing some of their formerly 300% marked-up gear at comps as bait. They aren't doing anyone any favors...they calculate what they'll make back from the exposure, just like they do from a print ad. I'm not knocking them, I'm knocking the parents whose only involvement is to cart their kids to comps with the biggest swag. Instead of coaching or helping manage grass roots programs, they get sucked into a 'who has the biggest prize' show. And one very tangible downside: accepting prizes at these comps takes away your kid's eligibility
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 bla bla bla..... I'll say it again, you don't do kids competitive snow sports any favors with your attitude. All definitions from your narrow minded little world. Like I said, if it doesn't fit your program then it is the wrong program. what a boring way to be. The problem with competitive freestyle sports like skier cross and 1/2 pipe is that it is controled by people like you. You kill the spirit of enjoying the sport. Rob, you're playing too many videogames Video games ended with Donkey kong for me, maybe I should play some to come up with some new filming ideas.
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 You're confusing ski racing (or any other sport, for that matter) with snowboarding. There are infinite ways of proving your superior skills, and competition is only one of those methods. Trying to compare the areas of judging in a slopestyle or pipe contest to "get to the bottom as fast as possible" is apples and oranges. If I can "prove that I am the best" by filming locally what is the point of traveling anywhere from one to twelve hours to a contest? I'm not going to say that prizes are the only reason to do contests, but they are definitely a major deciding factor on what contests I enter. I'm not confusing anything, DH. In fact, judging is the downfall of slopestyle and pipe contests. I've heard and read countless people saying that "the judging sucked, but the swag rocked." Now there's a sport that needs some tweaking, IMO. BTW, there actually is a sport very similar to snowboarding comps: skydiving. The photographer is just as important as the diver. Newschooling kids wanna do their best, but in this day its their best so long as there is immediate gratitude or some guaranteed hookup. That is an incredibly negative statement. Is it really true? If so, that's just the most horrible thing I've read about newschoolers. Imagine some little eight year old kid coming up to his baseball coach and saying he doesn't want to play because he won't get enough free shit. And any arguement that it's a different sport is irrelevent because attitude is attitude, no matter the venue. Wow, what would happen if the swag dried up? The kids would all quit?
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 That's clearly your opinion. Winning crap you may or may not already have, as opposed to having kids strive to be their best for the sake of being a champion---or reaching goals---isn't in the mix for people like you. Now, there's a revelation! Do you honestly believe it's better that way? To have a bunch of kids show up and ski/board to win a pair of goggles as a prize? Is that really better than having them compete to take pride in doing their best? If my kid ever didn't want to compete because there wasn't enough shit given away, I think I'd stop driving her and have her get a job at some mall. Uh, yeah, sure...pffft. That's as made up as your resume. why do you constantly degrade threads, especially when I asked that it not head this route, I rest my case. LOL this is from a link in another thread posted today. Notice the last sentence. I have never ever seen that in any USSA race results. Furthermore, want to motivate? - hold some swag out on a stick. Rome SDS put on another weekend full of I Heart Box down at Out of Bounds in New Jersey and Pitcrew in Maryland. At least 100 riders between the two events were there for a little early season shred. The riding level was really high at both locations, here's how the top 3's ended up..... PITCREW 1. AJ Lawson- Rome Artifact 2. Jeremy Anderson - Rome 390 Bindings 3. Kelly Bennett - Rome Bristol Jacket Out Of Bounds 1. Matt Albronda - Rome Artifact (his second win this season) 2. Tim Humphreys - Rome 390 Bindings 3. Emery Callison - Rome Bristol Jacket A big thanks to both PITCREW and Out of Bounds for making this past weekend such a good time
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 (edited) why do you constantly degrade threads, especially when I asked that it not head this route, I rest my case. Yes, that's what I do, Rob---constantly degrade threads. Asking questions and having an opinion should be left to things other than message boards. Because you have trouble reading and comprehending, I'll point out that I didn't bash Camelback about this. In fact, it's probably just as positive---if not more---as what Montage did for their freestylers. What CB is doing is a GOOD thing because it's absolute grass roots. Got it? Furthermore, want to motivate? - hold some swag out on a stick. And if you need to motivate little kids with swag, then you've done a shitty job with your kids. Edited October 28, 2006 by ski
DHarrisburg Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 attitude is attitude, no matter the venue. When little league baseball requires activity as dangerous as sliding down a metal rail with 30 steps under it I will fully understand someone not wanting to play soley for "the love of competion and the thrill of winning." And if you need to motivate little kids with swag, then you've done a shitty job with your kids. oh hay what do you know '999 calling people bad parents on the internet again where have I seen this before
Ski Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 When little league baseball requires activity as dangerous as sliding down a metal rail with 30 steps under it I will fully understand someone not wanting to play soley for "the love of competion and the thrill of winning." oh hay what do you know '999 calling people bad parents on the internet again where have I seen this before Jeez, Dh...okay, let's make it football. Pop Warner football is FAR more dangerous than snowboarding. Does that work for you? Kids playing football don't pick their teams for the swag they get, but for the LOVE OF THE GAME. And I stand by any statement about coaching and parenting where swag should NOT be used as the motivating factor in competition. DH: do you have ANY experience in parenting little kids? Unless you've woken your kid up at 4am before a competition, you aren't terribly qualified in that part of the discussion.
Papasteeze Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 oh hay what do you know '999 calling people bad parents on the internet again where have I seen this before LOL!! yep true colors..... nice guy, could you imagine having him for a parent? refer to post number 6 http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry107893
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