Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 im a straight up beginner when it comes to photography, i know what looks good and thats about it. i have the money for a d50, or possibly a d70. its just whether or not i want to (or should) spend it. i want to get more into photography i just dont know what level i want to go to. point and shoot cameras are great, but i still want to get more involved with camera settings, analog flashes and what not. id be happy with some higher level point and shoots like the powershots and such, but im afraid id get bored and master that stuff pretty quickly. i want to be able to document trips/outings/parties and all, yet also be able to take some really great, high quality shots and play around with features of the camera. which is why im looking towards digi slr's. im taking the workshop thing at bb on january 8th/9th, so i think i might try that out and see what i want to do before i commit to buying something. im getting more and more interested in photography, its just a question of should i spend that much money or not. i have the money, but if i ont spend it, it would be great cause than i would have some money to fall back on if shit gets rough. if i spent it though...id have a sweet camera and still be able to get by (maybe haha) the worst that could happen is i wouldnt be able to pay for my car insurance so id be without a car...but i have a job, so it really shouldnt be a problem. unless blue closes, than, its a problem when i dont have money. Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 ps. buying refurbished a good idea? Quote
Dan- Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 I've come across the same situation haha. I want to get a digi SLR aswell. I have a 8.1 megapixel Canon powershot right now. Simple point and shoot, but i want better quality, better lenses. The camera for me is gonna have to wait until the summer though. Id say, do the work shop, see if you really like it, then go from there. Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 as of now, at 2am, my choice is this http://www.adorama.com/ICADRXTSKR.html Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 (edited) this is it for the night... what about buying bodies, and than a lense. instead of a kit crap, memory too. wtf maybe i wont buy one. Edited December 25, 2006 by Shadows Quote
Ski Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 The rule of thumb on a certified, manufacturers refurb is if you can get it for 60% or less of a good asking price of NIB, then it's usually a good deal. But if you decide on a good d-slr, then I'd just buy a new body/lens from a discount dealer. One of the NYC shops like B&H, or Keh Camera in Atlanta. The first thing you need to do, though, is decide whether you really want to invest in making great photos, or just want great 'snapshots'. Buying a higher end dslr means $600 or more for the body and standard zoom, then you are open to lots of options for wide angle and longer lenses. With the dslr, you can shoot bursts of 3 and up to 9 frames per second, while a point and shoot gives you one frame for your basic jib. You can still take an awesome photo, but you have to be lucky and work a lot harder at it. And even the top pro dslr's take about 20 minutes to learn the basics to get decent photos, so it isn't rocket science. What you get from a higher end dslr is the opportunity to use unique angles and lens varieties, really. You can buy cheap fisheye to long telephoto lenses by selecting slower, with larger maximum aperatures, that are just fine for sunny days on the slopes, or used with a flash. For example, you can buy a Canon autofocus 70-200 f4 zoom lens for $150...and because of the 1.6 magnification, your zoom is actually a 112-320. That's a cool thing about digital: a film slr lens of that focal length would have cost $1000, or so. Another benefit of a dslr over point and shoot is the ability to add an external flash. Even an older Vivitar 283 flash you can buy for $60 will light something 60 feet away, as opposed to a point and shoot reaching about 10 feet. If you have any specific questions, go ahead and ask. I use a point and shoot for 95% of my skiing photos, but have used both film and professional slr's for work for a really long time. Each kind of system has it's benefits... Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 (edited) the point and shoots i would buy are like 350 bucks anyway, which is another reason i might just go for a dslr. i want to leave room for improvement, thats the main thing. i cant really add anything to a point and shoot like i can to a dslr. this is gettin too late for me to think anymore haha, thanks a lot ski. ill get back into it tomorrow since i cant ski i dont want to buy a point and shoot, than decide i want to buy a dslr, thats just a huge waste of money. im kind of skipping a step to save money in the long run Edited December 25, 2006 by Shadows Quote
Ski Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 The only kit you want to buy will include the body, a standard zoom, and the cords and software. Never buy a kit that includes the crappy tripod and/or lens cleaning stuff; they are just junk. It's fine to buy a "body only", then pick either a wide angle or telephoto zoom...depends on what subjects you'll be shooting. As for memory, just invest the $60 to $90 on a 1 gig flash card. That's roughly the equivalent of 10 rolls of 36 exposure film, if you shoot medium size photos. More than enough for most people to put their entire Disney vacation on. Quote
Papasteeze Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 im taking the workshop thing at bb on january 8th/9th, so i think i might try that out and see what i want to do before i commit to buying something. best idea..... and consumer reports? Quote
nick malozzi Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 Speaking as a photog who has used a d70 quite a bit... they are great little cameras. We have them as backups for our pro bodies at the studio, and they are great. We actually used them as our primary cameras for quite some time as my boss saved for a few d2hs. We probably have about 50,000 frames or more through the two we have at the studio, and they are still ticking. One took a trip back to Nikon at about 20,000 frames, but that was just for a hardcore ccd cleaning and all around look over (was acting funny after it shot in a gymnastics event for three days straight, the chalk dust got to it.). I am not at cannon person except for their point and shoots. I think they make a great camera as far as point and shoot goes, but i think their digital slr bodies are mostly just good looking. Too much plastic for me. Buy a Nikon, they are tanks, and technically are just as good in the models you are looking at. As ski said, avoid those bundle deals with all that crap in it. If you buy just a body, sigma makes some great lenses for Nikon, and I've used the majority of them and see no reason to spend the extra money to buy a Nikon lens (for your use anyway). A great site to compare and contrast cameras both point and shoot and slr is www.dpreview.com . They review every digital camera out there, and are not biased from what i've read. If you have any other questions feel free to ask, as you know Ski is a pro photog, and i myself shoot professionally. Just not quite on his level. Don't be afraid to ask! Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 so buying a body with a separate lens is good, got that. but a d50 body is like 400/500 bucks new. and a new lens is like 300. i know ive asked you a bunch of questions before ski about cameras, sorry haha. so the only financially sound options would be to buy a kit. http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?o...amp;sku=NKD50RB ^if i get the body for 350, i would have around 200 to spend on a lense. should i get a nikon lense? or sigma? i dont have enough money for a tamron, or tokina. (maybe one lense from tamron thats 179, the af 55-200 from what i gather, sigma lenses are good. ill pretty much be happy with anything (even the kit lense) but again, room for improvement with the least amount of money wasted buying the wrong product. thanks jib right now, im looking at the d50 body for 360, and a sigma 55-200 f/4-5.6 dc lens for 150 (on bhphoto) Quote
nick malozzi Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 (edited) I'd buy the body, and keep an eye on ebay for lenses. My boss has picked up a ton of great lenses on ebay that were either NIB or barely used for almost half the list price. Tons of people out there go out and blow their wad on the best camera gear they can get their hands on to shoot their little johnny playing t-ball. Then next season the kid takes up piano. So the gear ends up on ebay. If you come across anything feel free to shoot me the link and i can take a look at it. If you are really looking to save some coin you can pick up a body on ebay too. If it isn't NIB there is a piece of softwear out there that can tell you how many frames the camera has shot. Odds are if it is a low number someone did what i described above. All you have to do is contact the seller and ask them to run the softwear. If they won't run it, odds are there is a problem with the camera or it is really high. A co-worker of mine just picked up his d2h that way and saved about 1500 dollars. edit: btw, i hope you know buying a camera like this is more money consuming then a drug addiction. you'll be content with a camera and a standard lens for now. Next thing you know you'll be looking for a shoe mount flash, fish eye, telephoto, tripod, monopod, extra batteries, filters, a cheap bag to hold it all that you'll get tired of and spend half you year salary for a nice pelican case, extra memory, and eventually a nicer body which starts the process all over again. haha HAVE FUN!!! Edited December 25, 2006 by jibophonic Quote
Shadows Posted December 25, 2006 Author Report Posted December 25, 2006 edit: btw, i hope you know buying a camera like this is more money consuming then a drug addiction. you'll be content with a camera and a standard lens for now. Next thing you know you'll be looking for a shoe mount flash, fish eye, telephoto, tripod, monopod, extra batteries, filters, a cheap bag to hold it all that you'll get tired of and spend half you year salary for a nice pelican case, extra memory, and eventually a nicer body which starts the process all over again. haha HAVE FUN!!! yea, i figured that. i really just want a camera that takes great pictures and has some cool features that allow you to get better pictures when compared to a camera (point and shoot) like powershots or coolpix. i guess im at the point where its like "if i had it, i would use it, and take lots of pictures" to get a better idea of what i shoot, look at these... http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i274/Sha...ston/?start=all some of those would be great if i had some better equipment. those were all shot with a 150 dollar 5mp samsung, no tripod. they arent very crisp and some didnt even pick up key features. that samsung isnt very flexible when it comes to manual controls. (actually, every pic in my album, and sub albums, were shot with that samsung) as for constantly upgrading my equipment (if i decide to buy one) thats fine with me, but im not gonna get as far into it as you or ski. buy a good body, buy a good lense, maybe a bag, tripod, possibly a flash...and thats it. i guess what im tryin to say is im a "point and shooter" but want to do more than just point and shoot. oh, and ski (or jib)... the telephoto zoom or wide angle. id be shooting landscapes, skiing, and skating pretty much 90% of the time. i could see the uses for both, but the telephoto zoom would be a better choice right? Quote
Ski Posted December 25, 2006 Report Posted December 25, 2006 Shadows, from the looks of your photobucket, you are definitely ready for a dslr. Everything Jib said is on the money, but I'd avoid the risk of a used dslr from eBay, unless it was an incredible deal---but the better eBay deals come from NIB, grey market cameras. People selling their cameras in eBay almost always over-rate their used cameras. And there are enough people out there that bid on them, so you gave to get lucky. As far as independant lens manufacturers, I've owned every brand from one time or another. It's all about the quality of glass, when the number of elements are equal. It's a little like buying a diamond, where the better lens has clearer glass with the least imperfections. Firstly, though, no independant lens is as good as the comparable Canon or Nikon lens. The imperfections are most noticeable when used with a wide open aperature---so when you're shooting sports and need a fast shutter and wide aperature, a bad lens will really give poor results. But unless your looking to get published, a good independant lens is great. I'd avoid Soligar and most Tokina lenses. I've had good results from Vivitar and Sigma. Tamron was the most aggressive early lens makers that went after professionals with high end long lenses. For example, they made 300 2.8 lenses that retailed for $900, as opposed to the $1500 Canon version. They weren't quite as good, but they allowed sports photogs to shoot without a flash. Bottom line: listen to Jib. He has great info for ya. Quote
Shadows Posted December 26, 2006 Author Report Posted December 26, 2006 so, all i need is a lense now thanks a lot guys for helpin me out, i appreciate it im searching for lenses now Quote
Shadows Posted December 26, 2006 Author Report Posted December 26, 2006 well, im confused. i dont know what lense to get haha on ebay i can get some 55-200mm, or 70-300mm sigma lenses or a 70-300mm nikon lense from your guys opinions, what would be a good, all around lense for 150 bucks or so? Quote
nick malozzi Posted December 26, 2006 Report Posted December 26, 2006 What is the aperture on those lenses? That could make a big difference on what i'd recommend. Also, you say you shoot a lot of skating and what not, plus your photobucket has a lot of night stuff. That would lead me to believe you'd be looking in the 2.8 range (at least that is my recommendation). If you find anything on ebay, just post a link and i can take a look at them for ya. Quote
Shadows Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Posted December 27, 2006 i dont always shoot night, but yea, the majority is night. id still like to shoot some high light/contrast shots the only 2.8 i can find is a 28-70 and most people are telling me i want something in the 50 range. so a 28-70 would be great right? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...egoryNavigation that seems like a great choice for me. the only thing that i might have a problem with is its a wide angle. advantage/disadvantages? if you say a 2.8 is the best bet for me, than thats what ill get. i checked out a d50 today at circuit city, it felt pretty good, im 95% sure im gonna drop the money down. im not gonna buy ebay my first time with "high end" cameras. ill buy online from a more reliable seller i guess. the only better deals im finding are from people, not actual ebay stores. so im not gonna deal with that. this is what im gonna buy unless you have some other input i should know... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...egoryNavigation http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?o...amp;sku=NKD50RB Quote
Shadows Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Posted December 27, 2006 http://www.expresscameras.com/prodetails.a...960&start=1 found a better price for the body, comes with everyting too Quote
Shadows Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Posted December 27, 2006 (edited) i went there today too actually, with stevo... no comparison haha, id be paying over 800 bucks there if i bought there instead of online. im saving around 300 bucks or so by buying online instead of dans camera city. ok, so lets assume im gettin what i posted and talk about memory i cant find out what size card the d50 comes with, if any. would a 1 gig be enough? Edited December 27, 2006 by Shadows Quote
nick malozzi Posted December 27, 2006 Report Posted December 27, 2006 (edited) The Lens: Good lens. My boss and a co-worker of mine both own that exact lens. Works well, and is perfect to get you started. That Kit you found from Express Camera: I looked up the specs. Good little kit, but if you look on the "What's in the Box" there is no lens. I'm not sure what just a body runs on other sites, but just be aware there is no lens on that despite the stock product photo that shows a lens. The memory: Most Nikon's come with a 128 CF Card. It should roughly get you about 12 shots on JPEG High, and maybe 2 shots on RAW. So it is basically worthless. Grab up a nice lil 1gig CF card. Froogle it and you'll be able to find em for CHEAP. Edited December 27, 2006 by jibophonic Quote
Shadows Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Posted December 27, 2006 That Kit you found from Express Camera:I looked up the specs. Good little kit, but if you look on the "What's in the Box" there is no lens. I'm not sure what just a body runs on other sites, but just be aware there is no lens on that despite the stock product photo that shows a lens. The memory: Most Nikon's come with a 128 CF Card. It should roughly get you about 12 shots on JPEG High, and maybe 2 shots on RAW. So it is basically worthless. Grab up a nice lil 1gig CF card. Froogle it and you'll be able to find em for CHEAP. i know its just a body. most sites ive found that sell the kit camera with a lens are like 500 bucks. and the least ive found a site sell a body for is 299 from expresscamera.com im buying a body and a lense seperate cause its cheaper and ill get a better setup that way. everyone says kit lenses are crap. did a quick search, found 1 gig cf cards for 30 bucks. thanks a lot jib and ski. ill let you know how things go when i get my check back and start spending money Quote
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