sibhusky Posted January 7, 2007 Report Posted January 7, 2007 Starting with bib 85, finished SECOND at Mammoth with FIS points in the forties. The guy is 50 years old. GO, PHIL!!!!!!
trtaylor Posted January 7, 2007 Report Posted January 7, 2007 Starting with bib 85, finished SECOND at Mammoth with FIS points in the forties. The guy is 50 years old. GO, PHIL!!!!!! Sib (or others), Can you give us a crash course on how the FIS points system works? Or do you have a link to a web site that explains it? Thanks.
sibhusky Posted January 8, 2007 Author Report Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Crash course (very abbreviated). In both USSA and FIS, lower points are better. Basically, within each system there are two aspects: race points and penalty points. Race points are assigned based on the competitor's time compared to the winner, without regard to placement. All you care about is the time behind the winner. The more time difference, the higher points you get. Then there are penalty points. Obviously, a world cup race is a higher caliber field than a PA race. So, they look at the top competitors at a given race (top being based on past performance) and what points they brought into the race. If it's a World Cup race, the points will be low, possibly in the single digits. If it's a PA race, the points of the top performers maybe in the low hundreds or maybe down around 60 in a tough field. They assign points to the race itself (higher being a lower caliber race) based on who shows up. Once the race is run, the winner will get zero points as "race points", since they won, and then the "penalty points" that were calculated based on who showed up to race. Basically, the winner of a race pretty ends up just getting the points they showed up to the race with MOST OF THE TIME. Now, if the top competitors do BADLY, but finish the race, so that lower level competitors get times CLOSER to the top finishers, the lower level competitors will get lower points than they would have otherwise. Race points are added to penalty points for the race result. So, say a girl named Kate and her four twins show up, they all have 20 points. The average of those points (ski, I am just being simplistic here, so let's not split hairs) will be 20 and that will be the penalty for the race. (It's actually a LOT more complicated, but you get the idea). Now, Mary shows up at the race with 100 points, runs well down the list at the start. She finishes, however, within a second of Kate and her siblings. Kate gets zero race points plus her penalty of 20, and her race result is 20. Mary gets her race points (say they are 40 or whatever) plus the 20 penalty points, for a race result of 60. This is MUCH better than her points when she entered the race (100), so her points for the next "list" will be lower and she will have a better start position next time. The best two race results are averaged for each list that comes out. Lists come out periodically throughout the season and your start position is determine by these lists and your ranking against other racers across the US and (for FIS) around the world is based on these lists. That's the basic idea. In reality, it's much more complicated...if you don't race for a while, your FIS points will start to creep up as they assess penalties for not participating in races, plus each season there is a "true up" between FIS points and USSA points and your points in USSA from last season's finish will be increased as you start this season, etc. Anyway, the thing to remember is that newbies start at 990, and are gunning for zero. The first season they are highly likely to get their points down in the 300's, maybe even the 200's. Colleges are looking for racers with points down below 100. Each reduction in points is way tougher, that is, it is far more difficult to go from 80 points down to 70 than it is to go from 300 points down to 200 points as you are talking smaller and smaller time improvements possible as you get faster and faster. Remember it is all about TIME, not finish place. So, if you improve your "line" a bit, you cut time off the race. But as the more skilled competitors compete against each other, their "line" through the course will be more and more ideal and the time difference between each of the top racers will be within HUNDREDTHS of seconds of each other. Those hundredths of seconds get shaved and shaved and the race points for finishers at the top will be very close to each other. The last two finishers will more than likely be several seconds apart from each other, not hundredths of seconds. Hope this is some help. Here is a link to a race sheet where you can see these calculations. You'll see what the "penalty" was at the top. All the way at the bottom you can see all those calculations. The main part of the sheet you'll see the finish placement and the race points for each finisher. Edited January 8, 2007 by sibhusky
First Grade Teacher Posted January 8, 2007 Report Posted January 8, 2007 How's CAP time play into all of this? Just kidding....................Inhale..............Ski.
trtaylor Posted January 8, 2007 Report Posted January 8, 2007 Crash course (very abbreviated)... Hope this is some help. Here is a link to a race sheet where you can see these calculations. You'll see what the "penalty" was at the top. All the way at the bottom you can see all those calculations. The main part of the sheet you'll see the finish placement and the race points for each finisher. Yes, thanks!
AtomicSkier Posted January 11, 2007 Report Posted January 11, 2007 How's CAP time play into all of this? Just kidding....................Inhale..............Ski.
Ski Posted January 11, 2007 Report Posted January 11, 2007 How's CAP time play into all of this? Just kidding....................Inhale..............Ski. Why don't you stop thing about me all the time, faggot. Half your f*cking posts are about me in one way or another. Go join a gay dating sevice, or something. Starting with bib 85, finished SECOND at Mammoth with FIS points in the forties. The guy is 50 years old. GO, PHIL!!!!!! They mentioned he was trying to qualify for the USST during an early season celebrity race.
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Why don't you stop thing about me all the time, faggot. Half your f*cking posts are about me in one way or another. Go join a gay dating sevice, or something. Relax killer! I said I was KIDDING! Any advice on your favorite gay dating service?
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Relax killer! I said I was KIDDING! Any advice on your favorite gay dating service? Just for the record, I wasn't kidding. And, sorry, I'm married to a woman, so I can't help you if I wanted to. How about you just stop posting about me? Ignore anything I post that worries you or makes you feel uncomfortable. I know I embarassed you and that's why you keep mentioning me---but get over it. It's history. Move on. Harass Jeff, he doesn't mind.
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Just for the record, I wasn't kidding. And, sorry, I'm married to a woman, so I can't help you if I wanted to. How about you just stop posting about me? Ignore anything I post that worries you or makes you feel uncomfortable. I know I embarassed you and that's why you keep mentioning me---but get over it. It's history. Move on. Harass Jeff, he doesn't mind. For the record, you didn't embarrass me. I think it's really funny that you went crazy about the Bode winning post.(even though my intention was not to instigate anything other than a jab about Bode) You over react to everything whether it is something I or Papa or whoever posts that you think you are right about. Like the CAP thing that you still don't understand. You can just as easily ignore anything I post, but you choose to start shit with insults and then get pissed when I trash you. Your going to insinuate that I'm gay and then want me to leave you alone. That just makes me want to bust your balls more! Like I said before RELAX! It's the Internet, believe 20% of what you read. One would think this is your job the way you get wound up.
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 All you post are insults and jabs. You aren't particularly clever, funny, or smart. Just download a few pictures of me and head to the bathroom to get it out of your system. This is a great weekend beginning tomorrow...stop gaying it up posting about me. Move on.
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) All you post are insults and jabs. You aren't particularly clever, funny, or smart. Just download a few pictures of me and head to the bathroom to get it out of your system. This is a great weekend beginning tomorrow...stop gaying it up posting about me. Move on. Edit...........What I originally posted was way too nasty. Just relax! Edited January 12, 2007 by First Grade Teacher
Papasteeze Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 I think it is more cool that rahlves is competing in skier cross..
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 First Grade Teacher..post a trip report or talk about skiing and maybe you'll earn a little respect from us.. In case you wanna know dickhead, CAP time is about skiing. People(no names.....he might be listening and think I'm talking about him) get all pissed and start throwing insults whenever you question them or don't agree. You think I respect you because you post a stupid report about your skiing every fucking day? Like I give a shit where you park!
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Here are some numbers on Phil... He began the season with four races at mammoth. On 1/2/7, he finished 16th in a slalom for 72 FIS points. The penalty was 41, so it wasn't a super competitive race, but had a few good points people. Weird to see his DOB of 1957 next to his name...a kid born in 1991 finished fourth. On 1/3/7, he finsihed 20th in another slalom, with 70 points. All his bibs are in the 80's, so he's seeing some major ruts. On 1/4, he finished 16th in a GS with 72 points. He's running both slalom and GS at about a combined 5 seconds out. 1/5 was his breakout, finishing 2nd in GS, for 41 points. He was .84 back after run 1, then WON run 2! Then, he entered three races at PC/Snowbird. He DNF'd the first GS, was 49th in the second GS, and was 56th in the slalom. I'm a big Phil and Steve Mahre fan and wish him the best. But I don't see any posibility of making the USST. He needs to win these races, or be on the same second as the winners. But you never know... First Grade Teacher..post a trip report or talk about skiing and maybe you'll earn a little respect from us.. Word. Edited January 12, 2007 by ski
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Who's Phil Mahre? What did I miss?
Ski1027 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 I heard that Phil Mahre was out at the bars before his races at Mammoth. Ski, those are some immature words for someone who's in his 40's with children.
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 I heard that Phil Mahre was out at the bars before his races at Mammoth. Ski, those are some immature words for someone who's in his 40's with children. Firstly, who are you to judge me? Secondly, I like Phil Mahre and have had chances to talk with him a few times. He's a classy guy. He's also one of Bode's biggest and most open critics. Phil's pretty old school and doesn't race or run clinics drunk. You'd have gotten better advice if he'd been your coach at Hood... Are you familiar with the old US Pro Ski Tour? My all time favorite racer, Bernard Knauss (Hans' brother) single handedly kept Phil from ever winning a title. Those were the peak years of US ski racing...big money and dual GS courses.
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Firstly, who are you to judge me? Secondly, I like Phil Mahre and have had chances to talk with him a few times. He's a classy guy. He's also one of Bode's biggest and most open critics. Phil's pretty old school and doesn't race or run clinics drunk. You'd have gotten better advice if he'd been your coach at Hood... Are you familiar with the old US Pro Ski Tour? My all time favorite racer, Bernard Knauss (Hans' brother) single handedly kept Phil from ever winning a title. Those were the peak years of US ski racing...big money and dual GS courses. I'll let you in on a formerly carefully guarded secret about Phil: In his own book, he described drinking tonic water while everyone around him was drinking vodka.
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 I'll let you in on a formerly carefully guarded secret about Phil: In his own book, he described drinking tonic water while everyone around him was drinking vodka. Maybe that's a funny line if you're drunk. When you find someone that thinks you're clever, make sure you don't let them get away...he'll be hard to replace.
Ski1027 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Firstly, I have every right to call you out when you use immature words like fa***tt, that is offensive to many and should not be used lightly, perhaps you should not let your emotions get the best of you. I don't know you and would never claim to, but I would expect a response like that from someone much younger. But that is also your right, just as it is mine to think that was immature. I would expect more from someone who coached kids. I was joking about Phil and I think what he is doing is amzing considering many racers much younger than him could not make the transition to the smaller shape skis on the WC. Good for him! I am familiar with old school Pro Racing. I remember going up to see them race Vermont when I was a kid. It was also pretty much the only ski racing on TV at the time, other than the Olympics. I had a ton of fun ski racing and is why I continue to do it. College racing was more about having fun with my teammates, skiing as fast as we could, and drinking some beer . I don't regret a thing, other than going to a ski academy instead of my local high school. By the way, can you remember the BIGGEST CHOKE in sports history. I'll give you a clue, think back to October of 2004.
Ski Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Firstly, I have every right to call you out when you use immature words like fa***tt, that is offensive to many and should not be used lightly, perhaps you should not let your emotions get the best of you. I don't know you and would never claim to, but I would expect a response like that from someone much younger. But that is also your right, just as it is mine to think that was immature. I would expect more from someone who coached kids. I was joking about Phil and I think what he is doing is amzing considering many racers much younger than him could not make the transition to the smaller shape skis on the WC. Good for him! I am familiar with old school Pro Racing. I remember going up to see them race Vermont when I was a kid. It was also pretty much the only ski racing on TV at the time, other than the Olympics. I had a ton of fun ski racing and is why I continue to do it. College racing was more about having fun with my teammates, skiing as fast as we could, and drinking some beer . I don't regret a thing, other than going to a ski academy instead of my local high school. By the way, can you remember the BIGGEST CHOKE in sports history. I'll give you a clue, think back to October of 2004. I'm not George Steinbrenner, dude, so ragging on the Yanks doesn't cause physical pain. You can argue that as being the biggest choke, except for the 25 World Championships they had already won. Most sportwriters that I know--and I'm a former one--tend to stay away from that one because of the long and storied history of the NY Yankees. Also, if you knew a lot about baseball, you'd look at the Yankee starting rotation and know that being up 3-0 was not comfortable. The Yankees were relying on people like Jon Lieber in game 6 against Schilling, then the horable Kevin Brown against Derek Lowe. Brown was one of the worst signings in the history of the Yankees, considering how much they paid for him. He had a bad back, arm, and everything esle. He just couldn't pitch. So the Yanks went up 3-0, then Boston took two. So if you are up 3-2 in the Series, is it an upset that Schilling and Lowe won their starts? That series is viewed as a huge choke by people that hate the Yankees or don't know shit about baseball. And the word faggot bothers you that much? It's a word. Like bitch and wuss and queer and any other word. Some of our members might recognize it as slang for a cigarette in their homeland. I have a friend from a dance club that I've known for years who is a fag hag. Know what that is? I'm pretty sure you're looking to put it into the same catagory as a racist term some people use, but that's a tough sell on me. None of my gay friends were ever captured and brought here from Africa on slave ships. Also, I was at a high school wrestling match down at Nazareth Wednesday night---I believed they wrestled Jeff's old school...while doing teams pics before the match, I heard that horrible, offensive word about 30 times, when they were trying to get each other organized...so if you want to be word police in this world, you have a huge amount of work ahead of you.
Papasteeze Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 ewwwwww I want to jump into this one!! wooot!! guys in spandex is sooooo
First Grade Teacher Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) The Yanks were up 3-0 and didn't choke but Bode choked at the Olympics! You don't know shit about baseball or ski racing! Ski.............someone told me you were an Astronaut before you were a sports reporter. Is that true? Edited January 12, 2007 by First Grade Teacher
Ski1027 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 To steal a quote from Billy Madison... "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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