Shift of Strategy

[method9455]

Mountain Creek is changing their snowmaking plan. First of all they are now saying they are aiming for an opening January 19th.

 

That means no Martin Luther King weekend. That also means, I'm not getting a season pass this year. I have to be back in school Feb 6th, and even for $100 its not worth getting a pass for one possible week open.

 

Second of all it means a few other things:

 

Vernon is usually the 2nd to open, South takes less snow to open, but the fact they are switching to Vernon says to me they may not open all peaks. I have previously said they will not open 100% of the mountain, I'm not sure if they will even open 100% of the lifts this year. Except Vernon and Granite, but Southern Sojourn is a snow eater the idea of busing people from Vernon to South all season is most likely the only way the whole mountain will be open. I suspect without natural snowfall, they will not be in a rush to open South and Bear. The only kink in that theory is that the racing trail on Bear is required. If they do open South and Bear, I see one way down from South Peak, and the Racing trail on Bear as the only ways down. Expect on Vernon Horizon, Great Northern, Sugar, Khyber, Indian, and the connection between Vernon/Granite. Maybe Devils Bit. I wouldn't expect to see Pipeline, possibly no Zero G either. Certaintly not Come Around.

 

 

What does it mean?

 

I think Mountain Creek has a serious snowmaking problem.

 

If it were up to me, I'd get rid of Southern Sojourn, replace the Sojourn Double with a lift that goes in both directions, it saves snowmaking, grooming, lights, etc. A new lift won't cost much more to operate than the old one, and that one is the only old lift left on the mountain. This would mean they could open a trail here a trail there and connect them easier than if they have to seperate it into two distinct areas and bus between them. I believe the snowmaking system is somewhat seperated between the two areas because they are so distant anyway.

 

I also think its time to start upgrading snowmaking early season. Instead of opening South then Vernon, during that first window they need to get a trail open (horizon) on Vernon, and a trail open on South, or the crowds are too intense.

[mcg]

Just a question for you method. Have you ever been employed by moutain creek (or any resort for that matter) in the snow making or grooming departments?

[method9455]

Just a question for you method. Have you ever been employed by moutain creek (or any resort for that matter) in the snow making or grooming departments?

 

Nope, I've been on the retail side of the industry for the last 2 years. I've been a passholder at creek for 5 seasons before this year (where I may or may not become one, not sure yet), so I just kind of have a feel for where they put their snowmaking priority, how long it takes stuff to get open, and what the weather usually is like.

 

I also know that Mountain Creek hasn't appreciably upgraded their snowmaking in a while, and that is an issue.

[mcg]

Hmmm funny so working in retail makes you an expert on snowmaking and grooming. Interesting. Just for your information they have been upgrading the snow making system over the last 5 years. There is one section of the mountain left to do which will be done this coming summer and within the last 5 to 6 years the entire mountain will have been upgraded. This is a major feat considering the size of the snowmaking system there. I just figured that I would inform you of this just in case the info has not filtered down to what ever retail shop you happen to work at. I would suggest from here out you should keep your comments on the side of the industry that you know, instead of just running your mouth about things that you know nothing about.

[Barb]

I agree his posts are always well written, he doesn't just talk trash

[mcg]

Not trying to hate here i was just simply stating the facts. This year and last year have not been great years for snow making period. They actually were close to fully open last year. The only trail that never opened at all last season was Jumpin Jack on south peak. It was late in the season when devils bit and pipeline opened but they did open. I am really not trying to start anything here I just wanted to make sure that the facts were known.

[method9455]

I know they've been upgrading pipe for years, and the new yellow fanguns they made a big deal about, but the reality is the mountain was short on snow last year, and every year before that. They need more than a gun here or there, they need a major upgrade because they're just not up to par. That is one of the reason Great Gorge went under, and if Mountain Creek thinks they're going to sell condos when the peaks with condos (Vernon & Granite) are closed on Christmas week, MLK weekend, and close before April, forget it. So maybe they've upgraded a bit on the production side, but you know what, the RESULT side hasn't changed. You know what would make a much bigger change to the snowmaking at Mountain Creek than some pipe and a few fan guns? If they got some generators and a bigger budget so that they could make snow every chance they had, instead of just some of them. Once they get past just being able to get the trails open, maybe they'll get to the point where they could actually resurface the trails sometimes so it was better snow.

 

And if you had anything to do with the grooming of Zero G last year, I wouldn't exactly be flouting your grooming expertise, that was the worst trail I have ever seen at any mountain, in the last 15 years of riding.

[mcg]

I agree that there is still things that could still be upgraded. Yes the mountain was short on snow last year, but do you remember the weather patterns last winter? Cold one week, warm the next, then rain. Was a rough year for snow. Seemed like everytime that snow was made to patch things up, the next week it would get washed away by rain or melted by the fog. Mountain creek doesnt even own the condos that are on granite and vernon peaks. They are still owned by Movahill (the former owner of VVGG).The only condos that intrawest owns are the new hotel and the Black Creek Sanctuary. Zero G was left ungroomed last year on purpose.

[JibLab]

mcg - I don't know who you are, but it is quite obvious you know what you're talking about.

 

 

Coming from an on mountain employee perspective, I can assure you that mcg seems to have his ducks in a row... Method you have made some good points, but I see some of your observations and comments to be quite juvenille.

 

For a mountain that offers more skiable acres and more terrain parks than anyone else in the Pocono area I do believe you are cutting us a little short.

 

As for Zero G, and the Eagles; last season these advanced runs were left ungroomed as 'bump runs'... Although you may not have enjoyed these trails, the positive feedback from many of Mountain Creek's guests was enough to allow the mountain to keep these moguls all season.

 

I will keep all my other comments to myself as not to raise hell with anyone

 

 

Don't question the answers

 

-JL

[method9455]

Believe me I like moguls more than any other snowboarder I've met. I really did enjoy Lower Eagle last year - notice how I didn't complain about it. My problem with Zero G was that it didn't bump up right, and then it rained, and they didn't groom it out. So what happened was there was a huge field of iced over bumps, and it was just not fun. Plus on lower eagle there was actually a line through the bumps, where as on Zero G is was just a mess. That trail was crying to be groomed out, have some snow made, and allow it to bump up again.

 

As for last year - last year January was 10 degrees above average, this year December was only 8 degrees above average, so I agree that both of these years suck. My point is that - these winters are going to keep sucking, and the design of the system has to reflect that. An equal amount of energy is going to be expended to cover the mountain, the fact that it needs to be covered faster is something that can be dealt with by engineers if the company wants to. Clearly they do put that as a high enough priority because they haven't made enough noticeable upgrades. None of this is an attack on employees, the engineers who designed the system, the people grooming, etc. Rather - on those who decide where the money flows, and clearly their priority is not on snowmaking upgrades.

 

I don't think you guys should be talking about skiable acreage or superior terrain parks when Bear Creek is beating you open by a week.

[JibLab]

I've used up my annual internet arguing allotment... I'll be happy to join in on something in 2008! See ya there!

Edited January 11, 2007 by JibLab

[toast21602]

bear creek was open for 4 days... and is currently still closed for about 3 weeks. they are opening back up on friday

[Tyler]

bear creek was open for 4 days... and is currently still closed for about 3 weeks. they are opening back up on friday

[Ski]

Yeah but all last season Method was talking about how poor the snowmaking system at Mountain Creek is and how they never even got close to being fully operational...Method is one of the smarter people on here and I like reading his posts..I've never worked at a ski area before so I guess I should keep my mouth shut..MCQ..we don't need your hate...

 

Word. Maybe MC people should appreciate Method's thoughtful comments---right or wrong---and see what they can learn from them, instead of going into attack mode.

[method9455]

They can say what they want, the more they say, the more it shows how poor the Mountain Creek employees & management are at customer service. If you want to a great comparison, go look at the difference between the dialogue in this thread, versus that in the Water Cooler thread in the Bear Creek forum that I started. Here - they attacked me. There, the general manager is answering my questions and a bunch of people are going back and forth over how they can solve a weather problem worse than Mountain Creeks.

 

Plus - I found out that in order to get a shop employee season pass you had to go up before January 9th, which since they haven't been open I didn't waste my time doing since on my days off I went skiing, rather than drive all the way up to a closed mountain to take a picture. (Because they have to see our paycheck stub bla bla). And I'll tell you right now, I'd never pay to go to Mountain Creek. So do what you guys want, you won't see any money from me this year, and don't expect any customers from our area because all the guys at the shop got screwed by that deadline. While your out not making snow, we're directing hundreds of customers to mountains that have snow. Its actually kind of liberating, now I'm going to rotate my 3 days off between all the PA mountains and see them a lot more. I've been to every mountain a little bit but I don't know them as well as Mountain Creek.

[njkyle]

So is creek going to have a park open this weekend? Does anybody know?

[method9455]

No word yet, was up at the mountain for a Burton 07-08 show early this morning and they weren't blowing but the snowmaking crew was out in force on snowmobiles, and now they are blowing. I would expect there to be at least something, but who knows what or where. I don't really care, all I want is to ride again I haven't gotten out since I got back from Vermont last Sunday and a week is too long.

[bb!]

ur saying how bear creek beat mc open by a week so wat jfbb holding it strong since dec. 6th and the best parks around

[method9455]

yea but weather wise bear creek and mountain creek are much closer to each other than JFBB - almost all the early days JFBB made snow Mountain Creek couldn't have except for like 3. Also Mountain Creek's SnoLab 26 is based on a 26 degree wetbulb temperature for optimal efficiency, although I believe they can make snow at warmer temperatures than that.