stbgskibum247 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I have been skiing at Camelback since i was 3. My dad is on the ski patrol there and i raced there for about 6 years. I now ride mostly tele and freestyle and think that Camelback has a lot of potential that is not being tapped at all. Every resort that i have been to has made an attempt to set up an "early season" style park. I rode at Blue twice during Christmas break, they had a decent battleship box, awesome butter box, an attempt at a jump and a few flat boxes. Opening day at Boulder was also set up very well, and now Boulder's park is one of the most amazing things i've seen in our area ever despite the poor weather. Camelback on the other hand has decided to set up only features that they have designated for their "progression park" or whatever it is they want to call the miniscule pieces of metal and fiberglass that they have sitting 3 inches off of the ground in Laurel Glade. I understand and appreciate the need for smaller features that will help beginners progress quickly and safely in a separate environment from the larger features. I dont understand why it's Friday, January 19 and Camelback has not set up a single worthwhile terrain feature. Appearantly they now posess rails and boxes worthy of sitting through a 15 minute video before you're allowed to hit them, so why dont they set even just one up? I know this is not the fault of Camelback's park crew and I am not trying to tear apart the mountain that I have ridden at for 16 years, but i'm tired of coming back from school for the weekend and seeing that not one feature in the entire park has been moved, changed or added. I have not even heard anything about trying to open this newly designed Rhodo terrain park or set up any new rails or boxes. This disappoints me because Bear Creek managed to set up 16 rails and boxes (more than Camelback even owns I think) the first day that they were open. I hope that Camelback gets a clue sometime soon that winter sports are branching off in new directions and they are quickly being left behind, much to the disappointment of myself and I'm sure others. (I'll be at Bear Creek this afternoon hitting huge, well setup, progressive features. I'll also be at Camelback Saturday hopefully hitting something other than a slide box the length of my ski) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorovr Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 If anyone needs an example of a well thought out and well written post, please refer to the above. Great post sgt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LineSki Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 see you saturday i will be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splooshie Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 anyone gonna be at cback tonight? ill be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Right now I'd order it 1) JFBB 2) Bear Creek 3) Sno 4) Blue 5) Mountain Creek 6) Camelback 7) Shawnee Ultimately I'd see JFBB, Bear, Mountain Creek as equals but different, Blue and Snow tied for good but not great, and then Shawnee and then Camelback, from best to worst. Although Camelback's park this year will be better than any park in the area 10 years ago - I'll give them that. Unless VV/GG had a better one, I didn't go until it became Mountain Creek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirfrancisbacon9 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 they have the potential to open up the mini pipe, i was there today, i saw what was going on, however its there decision on what they want to do. and they are making snow on oak grove :wiggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I don't want this to turn into a snowmaking rant, so this is my take. The larger features slated for the Rhodo park will require, or at least it is planned, to have more snow than is available on Laurel Glade. I don't know if you noticed, but it isn't very deep there. They are concentrating on getting more terrain open to help spread out the crowds that are expected for the weekends coming up. Up till now the snowmaking efforts have been mainly to keep what is open and to add more trails. This is most likely preventing the addition and changeing of the current park. News is, they are making the "new" pipe on Oak Grove and are heading towards the Rhodo once they get some of the connecting trails in. From what I understand from talking to the Park designers, the Rhodo is going to be pretty sick (once they get enough snow made). The new rails and boxes are pretty big and will be elevated, gap on, and well placed. Some big jumps are also planned, and also the wall has been adjusted a bit for a better transition. I know it has been frustrating for you, but be patient. It is happening soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.b.c. snow Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 go ride jfbb, face it camelbacks blows, ive riden there for too long and its not worth the time. go drive the extra distant to jfbb where there heads arent up there asses in dealing with parks, camelback is retarded and im never riding there again.CUT. there parks are always the same shit in the same spot and boring after on eday of riding. there more worried about saying there the highest mt in the poconos or some stupid family oreinted bullshit. FUCK CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 CB is NOT going to ever become just a park mountain. It sees over 300,000 skiers and riders a season who come for the variety of terrain. If all you are interested in is park, I am afraid you will have to go somewhere else. CB is trying to improve the parks to help please you guys, and they will have come a long way (once Rhodo is in). You have to understand that the majority of the population that comes to CB is not interested in park. Yes there are a lot of you that are, but, it is not the majority. You just happen to be the most vocal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowSnowJerseyPro Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 CB is NOT going to ever become just a park mountain. It sees over 300,000 skiers and riders a season who come for the variety of terrain. If all you are interested in is park, I am afraid you will have to go somewhere else. CB is trying to improve the parks to help please you guys, and they will have come a long way (once Rhodo is in). You have to understand that the majority of the population that comes to CB is not interested in park. Yes there are a lot of you that are, but, it is not the majority. You just happen to be the most vocal. Excellent post I could not agree more with you! I put my hands together for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowSnowJerseyPro Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 are you a ranger at camelback? No I am a nasty ass snowboarder from south jerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I agree all the mountains are super short on snow. Thats why its all jibs and no jumps aside from JFBB. Lets ignore JFBB because they had such a jump on snow making - which may or may not happen in the future. As of 1/20: Mountain Creek - 0 Jumps Blue Mountain - 1 Jump Sno Mountain - 1 Jump Shawnee - 0? Camelback - 1? Bear Creek - 1? So I don't think we can complain about Rhodo not being open (they didn't start at MC on any park trails yet and they're known for their park) - what we can complain about is what they did with what they had. Everyone has no snow, yet everyone else set up a better park (although Shawnee didn't and blues sounded weak) - creek has only 4 rails but they are big, setup well, and smooth. Bear setup like 20 features with almost no snow. If camelback had better quality stuff, they could make a sick little park with almost no snow like Mountain Creek and Bear Creek - it doesn't take much. A tip I have found holds true - when you have a small park it is better to put in nasty large stuff rather than small stuff. If you have a small rail, everyone can do it. If you have a big one, only the better people can, the others are intimidated - cutting crowds. If every person who can hit a 10 foot flat rail can use one of four features - the park gets destroyed fast. Creek has a 40 foot rail, a 60 foot rail, and a 30 foot to 30 foot combo, and one 15 foot flat box with a long drop at the end. Bear creek has a staircase, a 40 footer, some other stuff - it cuts the crowds down. There is no way to maintain a park consisting of 4 features that are all easy enough for everyone., I dont' care what mountain we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbgskibum247 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 CB is NOT going to ever become just a park mountain. It sees over 300,000 skiers and riders a season who come for the variety of terrain. If all you are interested in is park, I am afraid you will have to go somewhere else. CB is trying to improve the parks to help please you guys, and they will have come a long way (once Rhodo is in). You have to understand that the majority of the population that comes to CB is not interested in park. Yes there are a lot of you that are, but, it is not the majority. You just happen to be the most vocal. I am very familiar with the 300,000 skiers and riders that come for the variety of terrain. Unfortunately there isnt very much VARIETY in the park. I also realize that Camelback will never become just a park mountain, and i'm glad for that. I appreciate Camelback for the trail riding and think it has some of the best conditions in our area. I just happen to spend the majority of my lower east coast riding in terrain parks. It takes a very small amount of snow to actually set up a simple rail. I am more than aware of the poor snowmaking conditions. I have been making snow for the past few days and have 3 rails set up in my yard right now. Camelback has more than enough snow and probably enough room to put at least 3 or 4 more rails in Laurel. And have you ever seen how crowded the terrain parks get? Appearantly the "majority of the population that comes to CB" just cant resist the progression of skiing and snowboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 First of all, the Laurel Glade is advertised as the "progression" park for people to "learn" on smaller features. That is how it is set up, and how it will stay. They may move stuff around and add some other little things, but, its intent will not change. The amount of people in the terrain parks is growing and I see everyday how many people use them. It is still a small percentage compared to the rest of the mountain. The Rhodo is going to have the bigger stuff and there is even going to be some things on Lower Moore's Ramble so that should help spread out some of the crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 My point is that the harder stuff is easier to maintain early season than the easy stuff, rather than make all that snow on Laurel - go for Rhodo first. Plus, the other mountains are setting up parks wherever they can (Sayonara at Mountain Creek? Come around at Blue?) only Bear and JFBB actually put their parks up on the trails - so ratings don't matter right now. If you put up easy stuff - everyone hits it. If you put up hard stuff - only good riders hit it. Thus you have less people on a smaller number of features and it lasts better - and it uses exactly the same amount of snow. Also, beginner riders need to work on their riding first. If you can't hit a big rail but you can hit a small one, chances are you need to work on your riding and early season the chance of injury is super high (especially considering most beginners don't have the right form down yet anyway), so it is probably actually safer to scare everyone away from park early season. Later on when the beginners are all warmed up, throw out some small stuff. The better people will be in the advanced park, so the crowds are again less, and everyone is more warmed up. Plus with more reglar trails open, people are more likely to be outside of the park, again smaller crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Interesting theory method. To enter any of our parks, you should be an expert rider (I can hear the laughter now). They are all "rated" as expert terrain. So, technically, you should already have decent riding skills before entering the park (your still laughing). I know the reality of that is unlikely, but, lets just say that is how it is supposed to be. The other thought is, since an accomplished rider can handle easier features, but less experienced riders cannot handle the harder ones, isn't it more fair to accomidate everyone? Following your train of thought about working on riding skills, this would allow the "better" riders brush up on some of the basics before they get to the big stuff. As far as the condition of the park taking a beating...so is every trail. This is just an unfortunate side effect of lack of available terrain. And for the making of Rhodo first point... Rhodo is going to take way more snow because of its size (length and width), not even taking into acount extra snow for jumps and rail setup. You also have to make all of the connecting trails to get to it and get from it. This would not have made sense given the weather at the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurtonGirl Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) I think we all get that CB isn't a park orientated mountain and never will be, but the one jump that is there should be atleast decent. There was a bigger jump built by some random people on king tut than there was in the park. That's a little ridiculous. And still no pipe? Thank goodness I'm heading to colorado next month. Plussss I love the way the liftie on the quad couldn't leave his station to throw some snow on the landing at the top of the mountain. They had to stop it every 5 seconds because you couldn't even slide on all the ice, I had a fat british guy sit on me because he couldnt ski down the ramp... I'll never forgive you CB. Edited January 21, 2007 by BurtonGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I am learning to accept that CB will never care about quality, they only care about quantity of ticket sales. When and if Rhodo does open, don't expect much. I am convinced that even when they do open they won't do much to try and recoup the length of the season or the quality of the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaritaville Skier Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I had a fat british guy sit on me because he couldnt ski down the ramp... I'll never forgive you CB. You think maybe he was just putting a hit on you??? Maybe he liked your bum. You know how those Brits are. PAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Interesting theory method. To enter any of our parks, you should be an expert rider (I can hear the laughter now). They are all "rated" as expert terrain. So, technically, you should already have decent riding skills before entering the park (your still laughing). I know the reality of that is unlikely, but, lets just say that is how it is supposed to be. The other thought is, since an accomplished rider can handle easier features, but less experienced riders cannot handle the harder ones, isn't it more fair to accomidate everyone? Following your train of thought about working on riding skills, this would allow the "better" riders brush up on some of the basics before they get to the big stuff. As far as the condition of the park taking a beating...so is every trail. This is just an unfortunate side effect of lack of available terrain. And for the making of Rhodo first point... Rhodo is going to take way more snow because of its size (length and width), not even taking into acount extra snow for jumps and rail setup. You also have to make all of the connecting trails to get to it and get from it. This would not have made sense given the weather at the beginning. I agree with you once the season gets rolling, but for all practical purposes it is impossible to keep a park with 4 or 5 features in good shape considering the crowds. Even if you had 2 guys working on each feature all day, the snow gets torn up such that you need a snowcat to groom it out, not to mention when you throw snow in a bombhole after a landing - it just slides out with every fall if not packed down by a snowcat. My concern is more with people getting injured early season, it is safer with smaller crowds and better conditions. Most of the kids who are hitting small stuff but not big stuff really aren't hitting things properly anyway and when your throw in a lot of ruts and beat up landings combined with rusty skills from the summer off, the recipe for injury is very high early season among newer riders. For the more experienced, the difference between a 10 foot box 6" off the ground and a 30 foot box 2 feet of the ground is nothing - but it scares away all the newer guys so the crowds are down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevePSSC Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 im glad i dont ride at CB anymore haha i dont have to worry about any of this crap Big Boulder rocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 My $0.02 on this issue. Why not throw some more rails in there? I was looking at some of the pics of the park from CB's website and it looks empty. This would solve a lot of issues. First of all more features, especially side by sides, creates less traffic on them. If half the people hit the left rail, and half hit the right, then you've got half as much rutting to deal with. This would also make more people happy. I understand that LG is the "Progression Park", but having 3 or 4 ride on rails isn't progressing anyone anywhere. All the jibhonks here would love a huge battleship or an urban set up, but I understand why you wouldn't put it in there. Why not go for something just a little bigger then? A good example of this is the Freedom Park at Boulder. I don't want to start a comparison thing here, but even just one box like they have in that park would go a long way. A long flat box, maybe 1-2 feet off the ground, with a little gap to it. This would allow a simple medium for people to start learning gap on moves before they graduate to Rhodo, and will keep the more advanced riders happy as well. I don't think anyone on here would be opposed to a nice smooth box to get tech on. Well theres my 2/100 of a dollar. Who knows if it will change anything, and it really doesn't affect me all that much because I don't go to CB a whole lot anymore (too expensive for a day ticket), but it kills me to see a mountain with more than enough capital having a bad little park "because eventually we'll have a big one!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Without getting into specifics, injuries have not been an issue. Wouldn't putting "bigger" stuff just draw more people? I understand what you are trying to say, but, I think the opposite would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirfrancisbacon9 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 r u kidding, esp this season they would come, right now on the east coast you either have to go north to vt, lake placid, maine, or canada. Creek is usually the place with the park around here. Hell, if you put a nasty urban set up i would hike that beast the whole day, as would any other skier/boarder that knows what they r doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbgskibum247 Posted January 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Camelback just has bad decision makers in charge of the terrain parks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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