The Sense of Entitlement among Park Rats

[toast21602]

this is turning into the most ridiculous thread that i have ever encountered on this site. am i entitled to say that? oh wait, no it must be that sense of entitlement that ALL park rats have. idiots.

[stevePSSC]

All im going to say is Camelback has a talented park crew, in which they are paid to keep up the park and set hits up. How can they do so when management wont allow them? They are paying these guys to half ass their job. LG is around the same length and width as Freedom Park at Big Bboulder and there is a HUGE difference! The park crew at BB is allowed to do their job to the best of their abilities, when CB's crew is not allowed to. All we are asking is to allow the PARK crew to take control over the park and allow them to make the best park possible for these conditions. If a mountain is already putting out the money for a park and a park crew they why half ass it? That would be the same as investing in bigger/better snow guns but never using them to their full potential.

[Tyler]

method you are the fucking man!!

[method9455]

Well Ben you started the thread talking about how vocal people here on the site are - not the population in the park as a whole. Believe me I ride the park at Mountain Creek and if you want to find a group of morons - go there. The place is basically the equivalent of the Jersey Shore West. Within that population are the real riders - people there from before it was cool, who understand progression. You find some skaters who do it in the winter who are clearly different because they ride all park and don't really go for powder and moguls etc, but also get the progression thing and are fun to hang with. Then there is a large group of people who are trying to be "cool" and "hardcore" and crap like that. They're loud, flashy, and generally can't ride all that well. It is hard to distinguish them from the actual good riders who set style because they look similar, but these posers can usually be found throwing down on really wide boxes that take very little skill, and not being able to do rails or jumps because they can't actually ride.

 

The people on this side largely fall into the actual rider side - we aren't just in it for Park and we understand weather - so we complain about the park because it is one thing under their control right now. You stirred up a shit storm because you basically attacked us for trying to get some change done, if you don't want to read out threads then don't read them.

 

I'm on the fence with the CB park crew, sometimes it seems like they know what they're doing, and sometimes they seem lazy. I think there were a few idiots like 2 years ago and the crew now is fine - but management talks a lot more than they act when it comes to setting up a park. We'll see what happens when Rhodo opens up, but I don't think it will compare well.

[jdew]

i'm a park rat. thanks for judging me based on what you see from other people. everybody who has commented in this fucking thread has made these judgements that don't relate to all people who like to ride park. there is no excure for that!

 

No one judged you. A comment was made about a statement that was included in a post.

 

You say "everyone who has commented" has made judgements that don't relate to all people who like to ride park. Do you really mean "everyone"? I'm sure there are some who have made those judgements, just like I am sure there are some park rats who have the selfish, obnoxious, whinney, me-first behavior.

[ben]

Well Ben you started the thread talking about how vocal people here on the site are - not the population in the park as a whole. Believe me I ride the park at Mountain Creek and if you want to find a group of morons - go there. The place is basically the equivalent of the Jersey Shore West. Within that population are the real riders - people there from before it was cool, who understand progression. You find some skaters who do it in the winter who are clearly different because they ride all park and don't really go for powder and moguls etc, but also get the progression thing and are fun to hang with. Then there is a large group of people who are trying to be "cool" and "hardcore" and crap like that. They're loud, flashy, and generally can't ride all that well. It is hard to distinguish them from the actual good riders who set style because they look similar, but these posers can usually be found throwing down on really wide boxes that take very little skill, and not being able to do rails or jumps because they can't actually ride.

 

The people on this side largely fall into the actual rider side - we aren't just in it for Park and we understand weather - so we complain about the park because it is one thing under their control right now. You stirred up a shit storm because you basically attacked us for trying to get some change done, if you don't want to read out threads then don't read them.

 

I'm on the fence with the CB park crew, sometimes it seems like they know what they're doing, and sometimes they seem lazy. I think there were a few idiots like 2 years ago and the crew now is fine - but management talks a lot more than they act when it comes to setting up a park. We'll see what happens when Rhodo opens up, but I don't think it will compare well.

 

Method, you and Glenn say that you don't post with a sense of entitlement, and I'll believe you. But you haven't redeemed the behavior of the park rats, as a group, by saying this. There are enough park riders with a sense of entitlement on this forum to have earned your group that reputation. Ask any of them individually, and they'll probably deny that they're part of that majority, too.

 

I still stand by my original post, in its entirety.

Edited January 25, 2007 by ben

[Glenn]

Method, you and Glenn say that you don't post with a sense of entitlement, and I'll believe you. But you haven't redeemed the behavior of the park rats, as a group, by saying this. There are enough park riders with a sense of entitlement on this forum to have earned your group that reputation. Ask any of them individually, and they'll probably deny that they're part of that majority, too.

 

I still stand by my original post, in its entirety.

 

... I think you could make a case for every other group of riders. I've heard comments complaining about why this trial or that trail isn't open yet. People even complaining when it was 60 degrees out. Please don't make gereralizations and pin that kind of pointless complaining on the park riders alone.

 

But apology accepted anyways.

[Papasteeze]

the sense of entitlement really detracts from your group's character, and hurts your progress.

 

 

why do you keep saying that? Who are you? Do you really believe that or do you know something about the personality of the CB managers that cause them to supposedly "shut down" to vocal criticism and hurt progression. Somehow I think that is so true of the CB mentality towards customer service.

 

You will understand the shift and renewed focus on parks in a few years and as usual Camelback will be the last hill to catch up with the rest. What year did you finally accept that snowboarding was here to stay. Last year?

 

I am going to go another route here and say damn right they are entitled, when CB advertises the way they do about thier parks (first and foremost this fall) and then they don't deliver anything better than what can be found where? They are entitled to an explanation at a minimum. When they say it is because the weather, then we are entitled to try and educate them to help with thier lack of knowledge or understanding of what the kids are looking for in a park. They are entitled more so than others because they are the future of snow sports and markets.

[ski911]

I can't believe I'm getting into this. The old saying...."the squeaky wheel gets the grease" comes to mind. (do I need to explain that?). The general "sound" of most of the complaints on this forum is that of immature, spoiled, brats. I know that is not always the case, but, much of the time it is really hard to take any of it seriously. That being said, if you expect instantaneous gratification, give up. It will never work that way....anywhere. No management would ever get past even one aggressively negative comment with a postitive reaction.

CB's "commitment" to "freestyle" has not gone unrealized. They may not be as committed as other areas, but, those areas pretty much only concentrate on that niche because they are lacking everywhere else.

 

You are accusing CB of failing, before the park even opens. LG IS NOT A PARK FOR EXPERIENCED RIDERS! STOP EXPECTING IT TO BE! Unfortunately, due somewhat to its location, it has to be first to be opened.

 

If you are all so advanced that you cannot improve any of your skills with what is currently available (which I believe is not possible) I guess you have to go somewhere else. Where am I gonna go when I am to "advanced" for Marjies? Maybe I should demand they make it steeper, or make a cliffdrop.

My point is, you can challenge yourself anywhere on anything if you are creative.

 

Rhodo will be open soon, and I am sure no matter how it is set up, you will find something wrong with it. CB has sought alot of "experienced" advice from riders, park builders and it's own park crew, so do not think they are doing this blind.

 

If you are honestly looking for positive responce from CB management, I strongly suggest "softening" some of your approach. Remember, respect gets respect. Whining gets ignored.

[toast21602]

complaining about park rats and their "sense of entitlement" is no better than them complaining about having a better park.

[Papasteeze]

If you are all so advanced that you cannot improve any of your skills with what is currently available (which I believe is not possible)

 

I have heard this comment before from others at CB.... hmmmmmm..... If CB management is listening to this type of BS and your style of presenting it, then I think we have found the root cause of the lack of park progression and quality at CB.

 

Are you one of those people who think boxes are rails? What part haven't you heard from some expert riders here that the current set ups at CB are dangerous!

 

 

am i entitled to say jdew and ben are f*cking morons? BTW, i'm not a true park rat.

 

add ski911 park comments into this group please.

 

complaining about park rats and their "sense of entitlement" is no better than them complaining about having a better park.

 

hahahaaa - the silent majority is starting to speak.... you mr... are one of those who reap the rewards of the rest our work. speak up boy!

[method9455]

Well this thread is about on the verge of shit hitting the fan/turning into a stupid internet brawl but I'll reiterate another time.

 

The problem with a setup like Camelback's is that it is plain dangerous. We aren't asking them to commit more terrain, more snow, or more money. We're asking they just push the snow a little bit differently and let the park crew set things up the way we know they can so that it is safer for everyone.

 

Here is how beginners hit rails:

 

Line up with the rail.

Go pretty slow in a straight line for it.

Don't jump, allow the ramp to lift you up on the rail.

Get on the rail, slide to the end.

Maybe fall on the landing, maybe ride away.

Get stoked.

 

Here is how advanced people hit rails:

 

Setup higher up, make maybe 1 or 2 carves on the approach.

Have much higher speed

Take the rail from the side, between 3-12" from the edge of the rail and land on it

Rotate onto the rail into whatever slide you are doing.

Rotate off the end of it back to straight

 

now the beginners aren't morons, it takes a lot of coordination to do it right.

 

So why can't we do anything with camelback's rails? They are too narrow to setup from the side. They are too short for us to take them with the speed we are accustomed to, and they are too low for us rotate easily. I'm not saying it can't be done because it can, but on a really short/low rail when you are going fast things happen so quickly because the end is there in half a second, that you don't learn anything. When you are on a 40 foot box you are there for maybe 3 seconds which is a hell of a lot more than half of one. The first 6-8 feet of a box are eaten up by us landing. The last 6-8 is us preparing to come off. That middle section doesn't exist on a small box and that is the part where you are sliding!

 

 

Additionally - if people are used to ride on rails, as the day goes on the lip gets worn down. Then people can't just get on by riding into it, and the nose of their snowboard hooks the end of the rail because they are too low - instant front flip. If they have lined up straight into the rail like I said before - instant front flip into slamming into a rail.

 

Believe me I know about this - i was clearly a begginer too. Here is my snowboard that I jacked up from going straight into a rail instead of from the side. Led to a nice front flip into the rail and me feeling glad I was wearing a helmet even though I got up and had a really bad headache.

 

[Ski]

am i entitled to say jdew and ben are f*cking morons? BTW, i'm not a true park rat.

 

I think one guy said TP4 has a squeaky weenie.

[AtomicSkier]

Don't hate on Ben, he's the only red coat in PA, besides MtnBiker99x that can rip, on telemark twin tips nonetheless

[DHarrisburg]

Don't hate on Ben

 

What goes around comes around.

[Papasteeze]

What goes around comes around.

 

you reap what you sow.

[First Grade Teacher]

Contact Snowflex and find out how many inquiries they have gotten in the last 3 months from our area.

 

Why don't you contact them? I don't care how many inquiries they got.

 

And the ice thing was at a ski sale. Very different than a ski area.

 

[First Grade Teacher]

I am going to go another route here and say damn right they are entitled, when CB advertises the way they do about thier parks (first and foremost this fall) and then they don't deliver anything better than what can be found where? They are entitled to an explanation at a minimum. When they say it is because the weather, then we are entitled to try and educate them to help with thier lack of knowledge or understanding of what the kids are looking for in a park. They are entitled more so than others because they are the future of snow sports and markets.

 

You basically said the same thing about BB when Park Logic got fired. Now your target is Camelback and their advertising. Now you think BB is awesome without Park Logic. Face it it's been a crappy winter so far and people just need to wait for "their" terrain.

 

Did you ever get an explanation from BB?

 

Edited January 26, 2007 by First Grade Teacher

[Sno Mountain Skier]

Ill be honest i am quite the dick to people who shouldnt be in the park. So i have the sense of entitlement. But, the reason, is because some people flat out just dont belong in a park. Anyone who wears all black (most), people with huge goggle gaps, rentals, little kids, and the list could go on. Ask any park skier or rider, and if they stood at an entrance to a park, they could tell 99% of the people who should/shouldnt be allowed in the park.

 

 

EDIT- I read 4 posts in this thread, so it may be offtopic.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Sno Mountain Skier

[librider]

The general "sound" of most of the complaints on this forum is that of immature, spoiled, brats.

 

That is so not true and you really dont have the right to make those assumptions.

 

LG IS NOT A PARK FOR EXPERIENCED RIDERS! STOP EXPECTING IT TO BE!

 

We are not asking LG to be an experenced park at all. We would just like the setups to be better. The way everything is setup now gets beat after a few hours. Look at big boulders beginner park. Its all smaller stuff than the rest of the big parks, But its setup nice.

[First Grade Teacher]

Ill be honest i am quite the dick to people who shouldnt be in the park. So i have the sense of entitlement. But, the reason, is because some people flat out just dont belong in a park. Anyone who wears all black (most), people with huge goggle gaps, rentals, little kids, and the list could go on. Ask any park skier or rider, and if they stood at an entrance to a park, they could tell 99% of the people who should/shouldnt be allowed in the park.

EDIT- I read 4 posts in this thread, so it may be offtopic.

 

Your not making a very good case for the park scene. This is exactly what drives people crazy about some of the park rats. YOU are not ENTITLED to tell the mountain or it's patrons who can or can't use the parks or how to allocate resources. You are only entitled with your dollars.

 

[jdew]

Ben to put it bluntly - I don't think you can read.

 

am i entitled to say jdew and ben are f*cking morons? BTW, i'm not a true park rat.

 

add ski911 park comments into this group please.

 

. . . and you wonder why you are viewed as big-time whiners.

[toast21602]

. . . and you wonder why you are viewed as big-time whiners.

 

who is the one whining???

[ben]

In the interest of letting the storm settle, this is the last post I'll make in this thread; but I hope we can all see eye to eye on this. Read the whole thing before you reflexively criticize, and try to understand, as a whole, what I'm trying to say.

 

I still stand by my entire original post. I'm sick of the entitlement that many new-schoolers feel on this forum, and think that it damages the group's reputation, by making them seem selfish, demanding, and uncompromising.

 

BUT, I'm not hating on new-schoolers, individually or as a group; I'm trying to help your progress. The new-school is, hands down, the greatest thing to happen to this sport recently, especially in this area. It's brought increased revenue to the ski areas, new life to boring mountains, and an entirely new discipline to the sport in general, where we can focus our energies. I'm not hating on the new-school; I'm hating on the sense of entitlement that many of you give off when you post, and that alone.

 

It hurts your progress because your group, willingly or not, earns a reputation for being selfish and egocentric. When you have that reputation, you lose your credibility before you even say anything; people dislike you, and turn off to what you have to say. Like it or not, it

[First Grade Teacher]

In the interest of letting the storm settle, this is the last post I'll make in this thread; but I hope we can all see eye to eye on this. Read the whole thing before you reflexively criticize, and try to understand, as a whole, what I'm trying to say.

 

I still stand by my entire original post. I'm sick of the entitlement that many new-schoolers feel on this forum, and think that it damages the group's reputation, by making them seem selfish, demanding, and uncompromising.

 

BUT, I'm not hating on new-schoolers, individually or as a group; I'm trying to help your progress. The new-school is, hands down, the greatest thing to happen to this sport recently, especially in this area. It's brought increased revenue to the ski areas, new life to boring mountains, and an entirely new discipline to the sport in general, where we can focus our energies. I'm not hating on the new-school; I'm hating on the sense of entitlement that many of you give off when you post, and that alone.

 

It hurts your progress because your group, willingly or not, earns a reputation for being selfish and egocentric. When you have that reputation, you lose your credibility before you even say anything; people dislike you, and turn off to what you have to say. Like it or not, it