removing trails from the list on the website so they can claim they are 100% open

[method9455]

I really like East mountain, some real skiing to be had in PA.

 

As for cats on steep slopes, a winch cat would make it possible - Mountain Creek has one to groom Pipeline and Camelback has one as well.

 

check this picture out:

 

From the Mount Hood blog - read the Dec 30th entry on grooming one of the steepest bowls in the northwest.

[bb!]

im srry about my post b4 i talked with huf and looked at crossmountain connecting tannenbaum to merry widow and that trail comes out right into merrywidows first jump and that is why it isn't a tail this year and possibly from now on

Edited January 27, 2007 by bb!

[fluffy]

At JF they are removing certain trails from the trail map all together as well. I mean come on, Little Cliff Huck is not really a trail. It's coming off the map. Plus one or two others.

[bigdaddyk]

At JF they are removing certain trails from the trail map all together as well. I mean come on, Little Cliff Huck is not really a trail. It's coming off the map. Plus one or two others.

 

I never really considered cliff huck a trail, but it was nice to see if they had it opened. I hope they blow snow on that rock pile this year.

[C1erArt]

So are they ever going to groom the snowgun mounds off of Thunderbolt and the bottom of Floyds? And Demattes was left like a roller coaster ride. Its one thing to leave a fresh snowfall ungroomed, but to blow snow in giant piles and leave it there is another thing. Did Peak fire all the snocat drivers?

[jordan]

Did Peak fire all the snocat drivers?

probably only the ones who have been there for 10+ years

[syd harvey]

probably only the ones who have been there for 10+ years

 

hmmmm...........

Edited January 28, 2007 by syd harvey

[fluffy]

So are they ever going to groom the snowgun mounds off of Thunderbolt and the bottom of Floyds? And Demattes was left like a roller coaster ride. Its one thing to leave a fresh snowfall ungroomed, but to blow snow in giant piles and leave it there is another thing. Did Peak fire all the snocat drivers?

 

 

Thunderbolt and Floyd's are being left ungroomed so the moguls can build up. The bumps on T-Bolt are sick. I happen to like rollercoasters. Quit being such a sissy and just ski/ride it.

[method9455]

Moguls and snowmaking whales are too different things. To make moguls you should flatten the trail first and then blow more on top for the moguls. Otherwise the middle of the trail ends up being really high compared to the edge. I've never been a fan of moguls in the poconos - it seems they get iced up and scraped off a lot more than moguls in Vermont or out West, which means they just become a bitch.

[syd harvey]

is there going 2 b moguls anywhere else on the mountain this season?

[bigdaddyk]

is there going 2 b moguls anywhere else on the mountain this season?

 

Thunderbolt and Floyd have moguls on them. Two trails is enough...unless if they make JF a mogul mountain, since they plan on making BB a park. By the way, I talked to a few employees today who thought that making BB a park is a really bad idea because they thought it would hurt pass holder sales, since a lot of older people account for passes. They also said that there have already been complaints about the changes at BB. Hopefully they start listening to the complaints about this and the other changes with the passes, discounts, etc. Now that Sno Mt. took over Montage and is proving themselves, JFBB could start to loose customers, if they don't start listening. Like I've said before, I love JFBB and would love to stick with them, but I've felt like Peak isn't listening to what the customers have to say. Heck, as of now, there isn't even a pass holder party listed for this year.

Edited January 28, 2007 by bigdaddyk

[method9455]

Well you'll probably get a lot of the park people going to JFBB from the northern jersey area - a lot of the guys from Mountain Creek have moved to JFBB now. I've noticed that most of the more serious guys in my area (Morris County NJ) have moved to JFBB already since Creek has had nothing - where as in the past none of us ever went. Even on the Mountain Creek forum, last year 0 of us went out to JFBB, now all the regulars have converted. So a lot of people who ski at night after work might end up going to Camelback instead, but a lot of park people are going to JFBB now instead so its a wash. Its just a different crowd but I bet it is a better business decision for JFBB in the long run. They just don't have the terrain at Big Boulder for it to be competitive on the regular skiing riding side, so this is something they can do that will push them into #1 despite their small size.

 

Probably the best solution would be put some lights on JF, maybe 1 trail on East Mountain, Challenge, and DeMatts and Exhibition. Then after school/work skiers could hit up east mountain/Challenge off 1 lift, and DeMatts Exhibition off another. THats only 2 lifts running, minimal services, and you need to add lights. That would satisfy pass holders.

[bigdaddyk]

...Probably the best solution would be put some lights on JF, maybe 1 trail on East Mountain, Challenge, and DeMatts and Exhibition. Then after school/work skiers could hit up east mountain/Challenge off 1 lift, and DeMatts Exhibition off another. THats only 2 lifts running, minimal services, and you need to add lights. That would satisfy pass holders.

 

I don't think they have much choice, or they will loose business.

[C1erArt]

Thunderbolt and Floyd's are being left ungroomed so the moguls can build up. The bumps on T-Bolt are sick. I happen to like rollercoasters. Quit being such a sissy and just ski/ride it.

 

 

I like (or liked) the bumps not the roller coasters. My third run down Floyds Sunday my downhill ski tail caught an edge on the soft stuff in front of a mogul, I rotated over the ski and ripped up my knee pretty bad. Fortunately I had a rossi binding with a turntable heel, so the heel released, but not before the tibia fractured, ruptured a muscle on the distal side, and probably did a job on the ligaments (waiting for an MRI right now). Looks like my ski season ended early.

[Schif]

Probably the best solution would be put some lights on JF, maybe 1 trail on East Mountain, Challenge, and DeMatts and Exhibition. Then after school/work skiers could hit up east mountain/Challenge off 1 lift, and DeMatts Exhibition off another. THats only 2 lifts running, minimal services, and you need to add lights. That would satisfy pass holders.

 

I never really understood why Frost never got lights. Every other mountain in the area has them. Even Elk, which doesn't subsribe to any of the pocono norms has a few.

[Papasteeze]

I've felt like Peak isn't listening to what the customers have to say.

 

Oh contrare.... I think they are listening thats why there is such a heavy park influence. They could use another park - another beginner park in the style that CB has to capitalize on all the ski school peeps IMO

 

 

a lot of park people are going to JFBB now instead so its a wash. Its just a different crowd but I bet it is a better business decision for JFBB in the long run. They just don't have the terrain at Big Boulder for it to be competitive on the regular skiing riding side, so this is something they can do that will push them into #1 despite their small size.

 

With some additional rebuilds, I believe that there will be more of a park migration to BB next season, especially if they have an extended season this year. BB is doing the right thing - Freeriders should head for Frost, besides that hill rides twice as big as BB anyhow. The other option is park passes for the trail they have with jumps and rails in them.

[jordan]

1. JF has officially removed said trails from the trail map, seems like PEAK is taking this resort backwards in ways of terrain.

2. Papasteeze, dont kid yourself, BB will close on 3/18, and JF most likely 3/25. Remember, Peak is a business. JF and BB are more about making money now than they have ever been. Blue ridge really didnt care either way with the ski areas, because they had real estate on their mind mostly, so as long as they were not losing money on skiing, they were happy because keeping the resorts alive raised area property values. However, year after year, all the area ski resorts have found that it simply is not profitable for them to try and push the ski season later through the end of march and into april. They all have the firepower in their snowmaking arsonals to do it, it just is not worth their time.

 

although if your lucky, BB might push enough snow into a pile to have another rail jam first weekend in May as another publicity stunt, i would assume

 

Jordan

[fluffy]

1. JF has officially removed said trails from the trail map, seems like PEAK is taking this resort backwards in ways of terrain.

2. Papasteeze, dont kid yourself, BB will close on 3/18, and JF most likely 3/25. Remember, Peak is a business. JF and BB are more about making money now than they have ever been. Blue ridge really didnt care either way with the ski areas, because they had real estate on their mind mostly, so as long as they were not losing money on skiing, they were happy because keeping the resorts alive raised area property values. However, year after year, all the area ski resorts have found that it simply is not profitable for them to try and push the ski season later through the end of march and into april. They all have the firepower in their snowmaking arsonals to do it, it just is not worth their time.

 

although if your lucky, BB might push enough snow into a pile to have another rail jam first weekend in May as another publicity stunt, i would assume

 

Jordan

 

 

Jordan, how is Peak 'taking this resort backwards in ways of terrain'? You can still ski Risk It if you want. You can still hit Little Cliff Huck if you want. Just because it is not listed as an official trail does that mean it is gone? JFBB has an open terrain policy. If you wanna ski on it then feel free. Peak is actually improving the terrain by removing trees and debris so that more tree skiing is available. A major removal project is planned for this summer to drastically increase the glades. Also, the ungroomed trails with heavy bumps is an attempt to improve the terrain. This adds an extra element to what JF has to offer. Now there is something for everyone at JFBB.

 

I'll bet you $1000 that BB is open into April. Obviously it will not have 100% of the trails open, but it will have enough fun stuff to make the time worth it for the mountain and for the riders.

[Glenn]

I'll bet you $1000 that BB is open into April. Obviously it will not have 100% of the trails open, but it will have enough fun stuff to make the time worth it for the mountain and for the riders.

 

Wow, high roller. You have a trail count or lift count to go with that prediction?

[jordan]

I'll bet you $1000 that BB is open into April. Obviously it will not have 100% of the trails open, but it will have enough fun stuff to make the time worth it for the mountain and for the riders.

JFBB hasn't been open into april in many years. Why? not because of a lack of snow, but because of a LACK OF BUSINESS. No one would ski except season pass holders. Since, Peak is a business, why would they stay open if they weren't making any money?

 

jordan

[DHarrisburg]

Since, Peak is a business, why would they stay open if they weren't making any money?

 

jordan

 

It's a good rule of thumb to assume that resorts lose money every day after Easter/Spring Break. Knowing this, why do many west coast resorts stay open well into April, May, and sometimes June? Well, the huge bases built up during the winter help, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still losing money on a daily basis. It's all about reputation. Now, I'm not saying that it will happen, but if JFBB were to stay open until April they would do two things; 1. Lose money, and 2. Sell a shitload more season passes for next year.

 

I can't really see a NEPA resort losing money to satisfy pass holders, but JFBB has broken the mold this year, and will hopefully continue to do so.

[bigdaddyk]

... You can still hit Little Cliff Huck if you want. ...

 

. So far they haven't blown any snow on it.

[jordan]

It's a good rule of thumb to assume that resorts lose money every day after Easter/Spring Break. Knowing this, why do many west coast resorts stay open well into April, May, and sometimes June? Well, the huge bases built up during the winter help, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still losing money on a daily basis. It's all about reputation. Now, I'm not saying that it will happen, but if JFBB were to stay open until April they would do two things; 1. Lose money, and 2. Sell a shitload more season passes for next year.

From my observations, resorts tend to stay open late if they are privately owned. If resorts are owned by a corporation, they have to constantly show profits to shareholders, ortherwise they will be closed. For example, the vail resorts out here in colorado (vail, keystone, breck, and beaver creek) are all closed by the around the 3rd week in april. However, the privately owned resorts like loveland and arapahoe basin stay open well into may (for loveland) and june (for A Basin). As long as they finish their season in the black, they are happy. For one of the greatest examples of the change when resorts go corporate, just look at Killington. They used to open in october and stay open well into june when they were privately owned, but since they were bought out by ASC, the ski season up there has become shorter and shorter. Now, they generally open in late november and close in late April or early may.

 

Jordan

Edited January 30, 2007 by jordan

[method9455]

Hate to be the grammar nazi, but they're all coporations - and big ones. The difference is public versus private ownership, as Jordan above said, private ownership is generally however much money we make, thats good. Public ownership is about percentages and growth. For example my dad's company used to make a product that turned a profit year after year for 15 years, but since being bought by a public company they cut that product out. This made 0 since to me since they were making money on it, but the percentage of profit was too low for it to still be made. So my dad's division was forced to make less money at a higher profit so the overall company's profit margin looked higher and stock price went up.

 

Another factor out west is the forest service and the bears. Not all the mountains own land they just have rights and the government has a set open/close date each year.

 

I have a feeling PEAK will stay open as long as possible this year, because they spent the money early and will want to advertise their long season, especially to sell more passes for next year. In order to pump out that much snow early they are going to be heavily reliant on the capital from season passes.

[bigdaddyk]

I thought that Peak was leasing from Blue Ridge Corp., so technically Peak doesn't own them? If that is the case