Does a Closed sign mean Closed ?

[Teleblat]

I am bringing this subject up because these forums are visited by skiers & riders of all age and abilities and curious what the thoughts are from a broad cross section of people.

 

Every area has it's own protocol for handling patrons who have entered a closed area, however the skiers responsibility code provides a clear guideline on this subject. http://www.nsc.org/mem/youth/ski/nsaa4.htm Closed areas are respected by most, a sore subject for some & for others a closed sign means little or nothing. Having visited areas across the US & Canada, there seems to be a disconnect here in PA between patrons and area management on what a closed sign means & who cares if you enter a closed area.

 

I know a couple of fellows who entered a closed area in the Rockies. When the ski patrol detected them they were headed off before reaching a cliff area. After about 45 minutes of wallowing around in waist deep snow the escort to in bounds terrain was complete and they were exausted. A couple hours later they were in front of a majestrate assessed a fine & told that they were not welcome to return to the area. The area management threatened billing for rescue effort & pretty much made them feel like dirt. If a rescue team or engineered extraction been required, they most certainly would have been served the bill.

 

Of course we do not have such perilous terrain here in PA. but none the less area management and Ski Patrol often close terrain for a variety of reasons. It is a fact of life.

 

What does one entering closed terrain expect as a consequence. really, what is fair, should the mountain look the other way because we do not have lots of cliff's, or are the perils of snowmaking equipment /etc, groomers or potentially falling injured and being undetected till the next day when it may be a bit too late to provide first aid & extrication real enough to warrant controlled areas.

 

What is your expectation:

- Pay a fine

- Lose your ticket

- Listen to some stern words for 5 minutes

- Watch a ski safety movie before returning to skiing

- Area should look the other way beacause closed signs are only a suggestion

 

Should there be different treatment for season pass holders?

 

Should closed areas be fenced off, or are Closed signs good enough.

 

Are PA ski areas overzealous & too controlling.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Teleblat

[toast21602]

i think that every ski area should have their own penalty. there should not be a different penalty for a season pass holder, just a universal penalty. there is no need for closed areas to be fenced off, there are always ways to get around it. and PA areas are not too controlling. if something is closed, than that means its closed. most likely it is closed for a reason, such as being in use for an event, or is unsafe. places dont just close stuff for the hell of it... there is usually a good reason, usually a liability thing.

[mattressinabox]

CLOSED MEANS CLOSED!!

 

as a park crew member, when we have to close off features we do it out of safety, when a feature may be dangerous and beyond reasonable repair at the time. we do this as precausions cuz we don't people to get hurt, and yet, smart as people still run through the signs or take them out and toss them aside. Then when someone gets hurt on that feature when its closed, we get reeemed for it. So kids when you see something closed, don't be a dick and just go round. Thank you.

 

and for those who don't get the msg. If you get hurt, you deserve what you get. That simple

[sibhusky]

We are currently preparing the mountain for a major race. There are roped off areas all over. They are tilling the snow and injecting it to harden it for the downhill. Conditions are ANYTHING but skiable. When I say "tilling" I mean that they have gotten tractors and churned up a foot deep of snow and there are major chunks and bumps that are UNSKIABLE down the course. They are out there with firehoses drenching this churned up horror. In spite of that, I saw TWO kids today that had ducked under more than one set of ropes and closed signs and were now caught in the middle of that mess. Clearly their tickets should be yanked and their parents summoned for a discussion of whether they are sensible enough to be skiing without supervision. Here at least, closed means closed. Otherwise it is "outside the ski area boundary". Different thing altogether. If you ski outside the ski area and get into trouble, you must pay for the helicopter search, etc. PRICEY. The only trails closed here are closed due to grooming concerns of major proportions.

[bbg]

I find it to be the STUPIDEST thing for people to enter Closed trails. Ski Patrol DOESN'T close trails for the hell of it, wake up people. They close trails because they are UNSAFE, not because they like to. Now if you want to use the excuse that thats where the best snow is, you are beyond wrong, the snow in there is unsafe, you don't see Ski Patrol free skiing in them for a reason. Any number of things can be in there and exposed i.e. rocks, piping, hoses, snowguns, downed trees, SNOWCATS, ect.

 

But all that aside the most important fact is Ski Patrol DOESN'T sweep those trails at the end of the day. If you get hurt in there and for any number of reasons aren't found in the "Golden Hour" your injury that may have been easily taken care of can now become FATAL(that means you DIE!). No more skiing ever again because you made a stupid move.

 

Would you drive on a "Closed Road" with all those signs that say "Do Not Enter, Closed". No you wouldn't and if you would you need your head examined. It is unsafe. Don't Do It!

 

People caught skiing or riding in closed areas should be arrested and fined for Trespassing. It is trespassing because it is marked Closed and not open to the public, it would be like going onto a football field that is closed because you want to play there instead of at the one down the block that is open.

 

I have no tolerance for the brilliant minds that ski or ride in closed areas.

Edited February 6, 2007 by bbg

[rideride]

When I had a season pass at Stowe in college..I would usually just enter a closed trail through the woods so I wasn't technically ducking a rope. If you are going to ski a closed trail you need to do it in stealth mode to avoid being caught. I've poached runs dozens of times and have only been caught 3 times so far. On time at Stowe when a buddy and I poached Hayride untracked and we were let off with a warning by a patroller waiting for us at the bottom. At Sugarbush I poached Organgrinder when it was just snowmaking whales and I was escored off the mountain but it was already 2:30PM and I just had a day ticket. At Camelback I had to watch a safety video when I skied a closed trail. If busted for skiing a closed run I would expect to get kicked out. At some of the Ski Vermont parties at Stowe, we all do a mass poach of Chin Clip..like 30 people and some of the people doing the poaching were ski patrollers from other ski areas. Out west it's different due to Avalanches and terrain traps. It's not apples to apples and if Search and Rescue is required I feel the associated costs should be paid by the poacher. Anyway no need to worry about poaching anything at Blue, they're 100 percent open..

 

haha. me and a few of my friends did the same thing at stowe. well, we didnt do hayride, but we went through a couple closed trails and got the freshest powder, it was so nice. but eventually kids saw us do it and copied us and messed up our secret trail. so we were about to go to hayride and we saw kids walking up frm it, with ski patrol right behind them lol. so we turned back and just went back to our old trail. and we almost got caught.

 

long story short, they pulled us off the lift, confused us for someone else, tried to take our lift tickets but we mad eup a convincing story and they let us go. then we rode away signing "TRYIN' TO CATCH US RIDIN DIIIRTTTYYY"

classic....