CB Email 2-15-07

[TINY]

doesnt that whole side of the hill open at nine and close at nine? i feel it is stupid! and i have been skiing at cb as long as i can remember (i feel it is one of the better mountains to just freeride on) but next year i dont think i am. because they dont know how to set up a park. it can be fun sometimes and not others.

 

but back to what papasteeze said about park crew not being able to do stuff in the park its true. i talked to them too. they said the grommer "some be one with the snow guy" does the lips to the best he knows how to. and i havent seen park crew fixing anything there either. the one time i told the one guy he should fix the lips he said we cant he snow is to hard. the snow was not to hard.

 

but back to he open at nine thingy. i was talking to the like head park crew chick and she said they have so many park crew people that alot of them dont even have hours to work most of the time. so if not haveing ample amounts of time to make everything nice is he reason for opening at nine and closeing at the same time pm then why do they have so many crew members???

[DHarrisburg]

Does park crew like this set up and agree with the guy in charge?

 

Hahahahahahaha that looks like a really bad joke.

[ski911]

Believe me guys, I understand, maybe better than you all, that not all things are biscuits and gravy all the time at CB. I've got over 20 years experience with that. What I have a hard time with is the constant "negativity" from you. YOU WILL NEVER GET POSITIVE RESPONSES WITH CONSTANT NEGATIVITY! Get that through your skulls. You think the parks at CB suck, we get it. A whole bunch of people have said they like them, not all are posters here. Nobody or business wants to hear constant negative comments. That usually makes them very defensive (look back a few posts).

Papa, you are unfortunately never going to get the results that you want, because noone is going to listen to you at this point. You have basically alienated yourself from any of the management at CB because of your negative comments. I no what your thinking, but, the negative far outway the very few positive.

The park is getting better, and it will continue to do so. Comments and suggestions will always be appreciated, but, be tactful in your presentation and you may get more respect. It is relatively new "waters" for CB and they are being cautious on how fast they jump in. There are alot of other factors going on that dictate "how deep" CB is going to go with the park thing. Give them a chance to adapt and figure out the best balance for what CB's needs are.

They are not BB or BC or MC or even BM, nor are they trying to be. They are trying to provide the best experience for the most people. Being great at everything is very difficult.

[toast21602]

i mostly agree with your post, mostly because you werent rude about it like some of your past posts (no offense). one thing though... how is a park going to fix the problems if people keep saying that its good and they arent listening to the "negativity"? does that make sense?

[Papasteeze]

Papa, you are unfortunately never going to get the results that you want, because noone is going to listen to you at this point. You have basically alienated yourself from any of the management at CB because of your negative comments. I no what your thinking, but, the negative far outway the very few positive.

 

Your attitude reeks of what is wrong at CB - I happen to not be shy and am loud and vocal with what is wrong with your parks. If you look over years of posts you will see a resounding negativity. You talk about safety and then say it is because of my attitude you won't listen to the content or the constructive critisism?

 

Are you blaming your lack of progress in the parks due to my posts? WOW!!!! I never knew I had so much power. LOL!

Edited February 20, 2007 by Papasteeze

[ski911]

Here is an example of good constructive critisism. Suggestion for CB Terrain Park management: The Flat down was OK today, but, maybe if the landing could be groomed out and a little steeper, it would ride a little better. Compared to what we usually get: CB sucks and they have no clue how to build a park. You should hire monkeys, it would be better. (over-exaggeration intended)

 

My point is, if you come at anyone with an aggresively negative attitude, you will get shut down, and most of your breath will be wasted.

[Glenn]

Comments and suggestions will always be appreciated, but, be tactful in your presentation and you may get more respect.

 

Since CB is admitedly new to the game...

 

Hire someone who is not new to the game

 

OR

 

Send the staff who designs/maintains this stuff to cutters camp (or the equivilent if it exists), because who doesn't want training to help out their resume as well as doing better work?

[ski911]

Believe it or not papa... you have no power. You just continue to whine, and it makes me laugh.

[Papasteeze]

My point is, if you come at anyone with an aggresively negative attitude, you will get shut down, and most of your breath will be wasted.

 

 

oh get over it.............. learn the lingo......... check out the BC threads.... you know what BC does when things get like they were last week? They had a public forum to have the kids come and express thier concerns in person.

 

Does CB have the balls to do that? do they care enough to let the kids speak?

[TINY]

Believe me guys, I understand, maybe better than you all, that not all things are biscuits and gravy all the time at CB. I've got over 20 years experience with that. .

 

 

What r u fat???? hahaha i like biscuits and gravy hahaha.

but anyway with all of negative stuff being said... u should do something about it so that ppl. will say good job for once.

 

before the season all of my friends who go to blue and other places besides cb were talking shit. and i told them that cb is going to be good but now its looking like they were right.

[Papasteeze]

Believe it or not papa... you have no power. You just continue to whine, and it makes me laugh.

 

Obviously I have a tremendous amount of power and all the people who hate parks must love me because you said this. or was that some kind of tatic to get me to shut up?

 

 

Papa, you are unfortunately never going to get the results that you want, because noone is going to listen to you

 

 

You guys are only open for 3 more weekends any how, so why are you even bothering now... I think you are bothered by my "tone" more so than you are about what you can do to help improve things. make sense?

[ski911]

Glenn, I agree with getting someone to teach the guys how to build. I wish that part was as easy as it sounds. The principle park groomers do have experience from other areas before coming to CB and one was at the Phat Cat challenge a few weeks ago (not exactly sure what they do at that, but it is something with grooming) he got 4th place I think.

[ski911]

Papa, I actually think some of what you try to say makes sense. I just think you have absolutely no clue how to say it and get positive results. Take advantage of the fact that CB management actually reads some of these posts and figure out a way to use that in your favor. Your current method does not work.

[Papasteeze]

I wish that part was as easy as it sounds. The principle park groomers do have experience from other areas before coming to

 

 

http://www.saminfo.com/events/cutters.php

 

 

come on... ask them what the optimum landing angle is for a jump, and ski911.... I eat and breathe all things park - your groomers are absolutely clueless or they are sticking it to you with BS. how is that for negativity?

[Glenn]

Here is an example of good constructive critisism. Suggestion for CB Terrain Park management: The Flat down was OK today, but, maybe if the landing could be groomed out and a little steeper, it would ride a little better. Compared to what we usually get: CB sucks and they have no clue how to build a park. You should hire monkeys, it would be better. (over-exaggeration intended)

 

My point is, if you come at anyone with an aggresively negative attitude, you will get shut down, and most of your breath will be wasted.

 

 

CB needs to aggressively change what they do, hence the aggressive comments, from myself and many others. CB kept saying wait and see, and we've waited and so far there hasn't been alot to see. It's a different version of the same stuff CB has pumped out of the past X number of years.

 

 

 

An Anology:

Imagine if you would a racer comes to our site, and brags about his skills goes on and on about how great he is, and how fantasic watch him will be. Some people watch him in a race and he pizza wedges the whole coarse. He cross-blocks some gates, but does so in a pizza wedge. The day after the race, people are slamming him for being a claimer, and telling him he sucks and needs LOTS of work. He needs coaching, lessons, and just in general is far from what he claimed, and far from a racer in general. This racer gets upset because people are saying bad things about him, and like anyone he has feelings. His ego is hurt and he may admit that he did boast a little to much, he isn't THAT bad of a skier... is he? After all he can go down black diamonds, and he does race right. He makes a comment on the message board for people to ease up and provide useful feedback so he can be racer he claims to be. Some suggestions are provided, but there is only so much that can be provided over the internet. Get your skis parallel, get forward, roll the ankles, and carve with the edges. The racer won't get to level he was claiming from the suggestions alone because there is such a big gap between where he is, where he thinks he is, and where he wants to be.

 

The suggestions made here about CB's parks are BASICS.

 

Rather than having an internet MB provide the training to a mountain about the proper setup of a terrain park I feel that CB should make the move to hire someone qualified or seek proper training about both the BASICS and advanced techniques which few if any on this message board could provide knowledge about.

 

I don't know how to drive a snowcat, and and I don't know of many on this board who can. So even though I know what a great lip on a jump looks and feels like, I doubt I could build one.

 

Again, I'm not trying to come across as a dick, I want the best for CB. When it comes down to it though, they really have no idea what is going on, and providing comments that don't hurt feelings isn't going to get them where they need to. BIG changes need to happen. If CB isn't ready to make those changes then I would suggest that CB totally axe the park, and quit teasing park rats.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Glenn

[Glenn]

Glenn, I agree with getting someone to teach the guys how to build. I wish that part was as easy as it sounds. The principle park groomers do have experience from other areas before coming to CB and one was at the Phat Cat challenge a few weeks ago (not exactly sure what they do at that, but it is something with grooming) he got 4th place I think.

 

 

http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/events/winter/phatcat.asp

 

Looks like a variety of trail grooming events. I have mentioned already that I think CB's TRAIL grooming is superb, the best I have experienced. It's no suprise to me that they took 4th in this comp. However park grooming is a whole different ball game, and techniques change as what the park riders want changes.

 

The park scene is a fast moving, and if you don't have groomers that are up to date as well as experienced and skilled, then it's just not going to work out.

 

Again, the groomers are great at what they do well, but that doesn't mean they aren't a weak link in the park game.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Glenn

[ski911]

You have zero power if noone reads what you say. Notice the lack of dawn reports. If someone wrote you a letter, everyday, saying that you where seriously deficient (suck), you would eventually stop reading the mail.

 

As far as the experience of the people building the parks, they all ride what they build, ride other parks, and have been doing so for many years, even the guys in the groomers.

[TINY]

i mostly agree with your post, mostly because you werent rude about it like some of your past posts (no offense). one thing though... how is a park going to fix the problems if people keep saying that its good and they arent listening to the "negativity"? does that make sense?

it does make sense. but i can say the park has been good at one time. and alot of the ppl who say its good most likely cant ski park. the ones who cant clear the jumps and use the lips for the rails as a jump. but they should look at some of the negative things said and try to fix them.

[Glenn]

You have zero power if noone reads what you say. Notice the lack of dawn reports. If someone wrote you a letter, everyday, saying that you where seriously deficient (suck), you would eventually stop reading the mail.

 

As far as the experience of the people building the parks, they all ride what they build, ride other parks, and have been doing so for many years, even the guys in the groomers.

 

Well... the people knew what they were talking about, I would try to listen to their advice, if they had no clue, I would contact the police.

 

I've put together a few webpages that I was really proud of when I finished, and I used them (and many other webpages). When I came back to them after not using them for a while, I was usually embarassed. I can code well, and all my sites functionally were bulletproof, but I don't have the skills to make something that is visually appealing, interesting, and integrated into a medium/large scale website. After some time I realized that I really shouldn't make websites, and for the design work I should find someone who IS good at that stuff. Alternatveily I could take classes to hone my skills. I personally don't want to get into webpage design so from now on when I need webpages done, I will go to someone who has a clue what they are doing. It took some time, maturity, and having enough sense to say, hey I'm not good at everything, and sometimes I out and out suck. I'll stick to what I do well, and either take the time to properly learn what I don't know or hire someone who does when those types of things are needed.

 

I think the problem is as you have stated that CB (and apparently many ski areas) aren't mature in the sense that everything they do is right, and anyone who says different isn't worth listening to.

 

I love to hear criticism (harsh or otherwise) of my music, snowboarding, computer work, driving, hiking, etc. Not because I like to be extra hard on myself, but because thats what is going to make me better.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Glenn

[ski911]

Just so you don't think that I am against any of you, I do read all of these "suggestions" and try to turn them into "positive" constructive critisisms. I have direct contact with everyone involved in the decision making and design/building of the parks. Whether or not they listen to me is another story, but, for the most part they do. I realize that the lack of immediate gratification is frustrating, but, all of these items get discussed and the general goal is for improvement.

[TINY]

You have zero power if noone reads what you say. Notice the lack of dawn reports. If someone wrote you a letter, everyday, saying that you where seriously deficient (suck), you would eventually stop reading the mail.

 

As far as the experience of the people building the parks, they all ride what they build, ride other parks, and have been doing so for many years, even the guys in the groomers.

 

ur right about that one. but if u would have read the first negative thing and fixed it right a way then we wouldnt have had this whole big thing. but it is kinda fun!!!

[Glenn]

Just so you don't think that I am against any of you, I do read all of these "suggestions" and try to turn them into "positive" constructive critisisms. I have direct contact with everyone involved in the decision making and design/building of the parks. Whether or not they listen to me is another story, but, for the most part they do. I realize that the lack of immediate gratification is frustrating, but, all of these items get discussed and the general goal is for improvement.

 

I really appreciate the effort and thank you. I'm sorry you are the one that gets blasted and has to explain "why" when CB is unresponsive both in actions and in words. Again, thanks!

[Glenn]

Glenn, did you just delete my post???

 

No, but someone else may have. I personally didn't think the post added to the discussion, but it wasn't violating any rules so I let it stay.

 

EDIT:

 

No one deleted your post unless it was deleted twice, once from the thread and once again from the moderator trash-can. I think you overlooked the post, or it is in another thread.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Glenn

[Papasteeze]

I really appreciate the effort and thank you. I'm sorry you are the one that gets blasted and has to explain "why" when CB is unresponsive both in actions and in words. Again, thanks!

 

Yes!!! absolutely!! Ski911 I want to add (incase you missed a previous post) that I think you are a good guy albeit brainwashed from 20 years at CB but a good guy - thanks for hanging in here and contributing.

 

 

An Anology:

Imagine if you would a racer comes to our site, and brags about his skills goes on and on about how great he is, and how fantasic watch him will be. Some people watch him in a race and he pizza wedges the whole coarse. He cross-blocks some gates, but does so in a pizza wedge. The day after the race, people are slamming him for being a claimer, and telling him he sucks and needs LOTS of work. He needs coaching, lessons, and just in general is far from what he claimed, and far from a racer in general. This racer gets upset because people are saying bad things about him, and like anyone he has feelings. His ego is hurt and he may admit that he did boast a little to much, he isn't THAT bad of a skier... is he? After all he can go down black diamonds, and he does race right. He makes a comment on the message board for people to ease up and provide useful feedback so he can be racer he claims to be. Some suggestions are provided, but there is only so much that can be provided over the internet. Get your skis parallel, get forward, roll the ankles, and carve with the edges. The racer won't get to level he was claiming from the suggestions alone because there is such a big gap between where he is, where he thinks he is, and where he wants to be.

 

The suggestions made here about CB's parks are BASICS.

 

Rather than having an internet MB provide the training to a mountain about the proper setup of a terrain park I feel that CB should make the move to hire someone qualified or seek proper training about both the BASICS and advanced techniques which few if any on this message board could provide knowledge about.

 

This is golden and should be memorialized - so well said Glen. I am copying this to my notepad.

[DHarrisburg]

A whole bunch of people have said they like them, not all are posters here.

 

I'm sure there's a large percentage of visitors to CB that prefer Nile Mile to Cliffhanger. That doesn't mean you should regrade Cliffy into a cruiser.

 

Anyone who "likes" CB's parks is either a beginner or a masochist.

 

Here is an example of good constructive critisism. Suggestion for CB Terrain Park management: The Flat down was OK today, but, maybe if the landing could be groomed out and a little steeper, it would ride a little better. Compared to what we usually get: CB sucks and they have no clue how to build a park. You should hire monkeys, it would be better. (over-exaggeration intended)

 

My point is, if you come at anyone with an aggresively negative attitude, you will get shut down, and most of your breath will be wasted.

 

I offered constructive critisim for years. I realized a long time ago that any suggestions were either flat-out ignored or falling on deaf ears. Now I just sit back and laugh while mountains like Bear Creek and JF/BB completely blow CB out of the park pond.