Monday February 26, 2007

[ski911]

Papa, you are absolutely right. Everything CB does is to piss YOU off. They have meeting after meeting trying to come up with more ways to irritate you. We have been named the number one ski area that pisses off you. SHUT UP! If you look at any of the brochures, tickets and even passes, it says CB may close any trail at anytime, for any reason. It is highly unlikely that they were trying to save $8 an hour on a park crew guy. We haven't gotten to the "cut back" time yet.

I don't know the real reason the pipe was closed, but, I assure you, it had absolutely nothing to do with you or your kid.

[Papasteeze]

Papa, you are absolutely right. Everything CB does is to piss YOU off. They have meeting after meeting trying to come up with more ways to irritate you. We have been named the number one ski area that pisses off you. SHUT UP! If you look at any of the brochures, tickets and even passes, it says CB may close any trail at anytime, for any reason. It is highly unlikely that they were trying to save $8 an hour on a park crew guy. We haven't gotten to the "cut back" time yet.

I don't know the real reason the pipe was closed, but, I assure you, it had absolutely nothing to do with you or your kid.

 

 

 

so wait... aren't you the one that says that since I don't approach CB with nicey nice talk that they won't respond?

 

So if they didn't close the pipe cause I irritate them so much, they closed it because of why?

 

Given the way CB responds to critisism, which reason makes more sense to you? Close the pipe because of light snow or close the pipe cause papasteeze's son was the only one in the pipe?

[ski911]

We discussed it at the meeting, it is OK for me to talk to papa like that. I really don't like to get rude, but, it amazes me that someone could actually think that the ski area is "out to get them". I am sure that the money papa spends here is appreciated. It probably pays my wages during the fall when the area isn't generating any income other than pass sales. Fortunately, most (if not all) of the people on this board understand and are able to form there own opinions.

 

Oh yeah, papa, please let us know when you will be eating in the cafeteria so we can make sure the burgers are cold for you. j/k

[Glenn]

Fortunately, most (if not all) of the people on this board understand and are able to form there own opinions.

 

... a large percentage of the board happens to agree with PapaSteezes opinions, but not his particular style. If you are blowing off what he has to say,

 

Ski911, understandably a ski area can raise close trails whenever they please. Also a restuarant can change prices and menu without notice either. However, if McDonalds decided that on the slow nights during the week their dollar menu wasn't valid, I think I, and lots of my friends would stop going there, and I don't even order off the dollar menu ever time I go.

 

It's one thing to have a special case scenario... a light goes out (which CB doesn't close trails for), there is a major accident to clean up (which CB doesn't close trails for), poor coverage, deteriorating trail conditions on a beginner run. However, CB's move to repeatedly shut down stevenson and the pipe just don't make sense to the consumer.

[jdew]

However, if McDonalds decided that on the slow nights during the week their dollar menu wasn't valid, I think I, and lots of my friends would stop going there, and I don't even order off the dollar menu ever time I go.

 

1. That would certainly be your choice, just as it is everyone's choice whether or not they want to buy a CB season pass or a CB lift ticket.

 

2. Would you change your mind if McDonald's posted a sign that the Dollar Menu may change at any time.

 

 

 

Papa, you are absolutely right. Everything CB does is to piss YOU off. They have meeting after meeting trying to come up with more ways to irritate you. We have been named the number one ski area that pisses off you. SHUT UP!

 

 

Ski911...as a paying customer of Camelback..thank you for talking to a Papasleeze that way.

[jdew]

So if they didn't close the pipe cause I irritate them so much, they closed it because of why?

 

Given the way CB responds to critisism, which reason makes more sense to you? Close the pipe because of light snow or close the pipe cause papasteeze's son was the only one in the pipe?

 

After reading your response above, all of your other responses on this website now make sense. Pleae irritate the IRS so they make all of us exempt from paying taxes this year. You have the POWER! . . . . you ARE a legend in your own mind. All hail Papasleeze.

[Glenn]

1. That would certainly be your choice, just as it is everyone's choice whether or not they want to buy a CB season pass or a CB lift ticket.

 

2. Would you change your mind if McDonald's posted a sign that the Dollar Menu may change at any time.

 

1. I would want McD's to understand my frustration, and by the same stroke I would like CB and ski911 to understand the frustration.

 

2. McD's does post that their entire menu can be changed at any time both in price and content. They mention that to cover themselves for the RARE case when things like tomatoes are hard to come by (happened earlier this year). CB on the other hand flexes their "openings are subject to change" muscle on a regular basis. It wasn't a problem last year, but for whatever reason, they are willing to close the stevenson and apparently the pipe, rocket, etc at the drop of a hat.

 

After reading your response above, all of your other responses on this website now make sense. Pleae irritate the IRS so they make all of us exempt from paying taxes this year. You have the POWER! . . . . you ARE a legend in your own mind. All hail Papasleeze.

 

You missed his whole point, which can be rephrased in a slightly less entertaining manner to...

 

Which makes more sense:

 

Closing because of a non-existant loss of visibility during a light snow squal

 

OR

 

Closing because only one person is using this trail, and it requires one person to operate the trail (ie a park crew member checking passes, who could either be given the night off, or moved to another area which needed more help or any number of other options)

[jdew]

You missed his whole point, which can be rephrased in a slightly less entertaining manner to...

 

Which makes more sense:

 

Closing because of a non-existant loss of visibility during a light snow squal

 

OR

 

Closing because only one person is using this trail, and it requires one person to operate the trail (ie a park crew member checking passes, who could either be given the night off, or moved to another area which needed more help or any number of other options)

 

You can phrase it any way you want. I can only respond to what Papa writes in his postings. I don't drink the Papa Kool-Aid like alot of his PASR defenders here do who give him the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity. His posts aren't entertaining.

[ski911]

The decisions made to close trails or areas or features or whatever are very rarely fiscally based. Again, I do not know why the pipe was closed (other than to piss papa off) the other night but, it was. The Stevenson and east mountain trails being closed yesterday started off as a safety thing with the lift icing issues. I believe they decided to leave the chairs off and protected to avoid problems. I was upset too, cause I wanted to ski over there as well, but, it is what it is. I got it today and am smiling.

[Glenn]

I don't drink the Papa Kool-Aid like alot of his PASR defenders here do who give him the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity. His posts aren't entertaining.

 

 

I've read tons of a his posts, and spent several days on the hill with him. I have a pretty good idea where he is coming from most of the time.

[Schif]

Which makes more sense:

 

Closing because of a non-existant loss of visibility during a light snow squal

 

OR

 

Closing because only one person is using this trail, and it requires one person to operate the trail (ie a park crew member checking passes, who could either be given the night off, or moved to another area which needed more help or any number of other options)

 

There it is. Summed up concicely. Please debate this statement (thanks glenn) rather than anything else from here on out in this thread.

 

This whole thing of attacking every word that comes out of papasteeze's mouth is really getting old. His points anc criticisms of CB are valid, the presentation may not be to your liking, but the problems he is pointing out are real. For everyone saying that you choose to go to CB as opposed to other places: To go back to the McDonald's thing, What if there is a Mickey D's accross the street that is pulling shady moves, and the next nearest place to eat is 45 minutes away. Where would you go on a very frequent basis? For many members of this board skiing/boarding is like eating. It is a basic need for us during the winter and we will do most anything to achieve this as much as possible. For an absolute diehard like our members, it is worth putting up with these shady moves to go nearly (if not every) day. Doesn't make it right in any way shape or form, but its why there isn't a total and complete boycott of Camelback. Even from where I sit which is 2 hours away from CB, Its blatenly obvious to me that CB is pulling a lot of cost cutting moves which end up affecting the core customers. This puts a bad taste in my mouth as it must do so for others hearing about it. I can say right now that CB has seen less of my money in the past 2 years because of it. I think its safe to assume that Papasteeze won't spend a dime there next year.

 

I know it doesn't actually mean a whole lot to CB, but its definately a negative in my eyes when their core customers are upset. One of the things that people commented on Elk in another thread was the great local scene they encountered. The times I've been to CB I can't say I encountered any kind of local scene at all. This is important to me in a ski area. I love snowboarding more than anything, and I certainly spend enough money each year for me to do it. For the amount of money I shell out per day, I think my overall experience should be a good one, whether its ripping down a black, jibbing some sweet jibs, or just standing on the snow and taking it all in. Camelback does not give me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside when i'm on the snow there. I think some of it has to do with the negative publicity they get from these moves, the other part of it is something I just can't pin down. Its almost like they feel like they are doing you a favor by simply having snow on ground. This certainly isn't the worst though, and this isn't a pure CB rip. I get the absolute least satisfaction from standing on the snow at Blue. Sorry to all you Booter heads, but the concrete retaining walls and loudspeakers just ruin it for me.

 

wow, that was a long one

[Tom]

As a customers, we all have choices. If you continue to support a business that doesn't meet your needs or expectations why is that the businesses fault? At what point should you be responsible for the decision you made?

 

At some point you have made a decision that, in balance, that business is your "best" option. Loudly complaining about a business you continue to patronize is inane.

 

I find it amusing that Papa continues to vociferousoy complain and denigrate CB, yet continues to go there. Why does he goe there? Becuase every time he goes he has decided it is his best option at that time, better than the other mountains in the area.

 

He doesn't like the park or pipe at CB. He doesn't like Blue. He likes the park at BB, but wouldn't recomend they install a proper pipe. He likes Elk, but I haven't heard what he thinks of their park. Frankly, I don't think you could please him.

[method9455]

At some point you have made a decision that, in balance, that business is your "best" option. Loudly complaining about a business you continue to patronize is inane.

 

This is where your argument falls apart. This was my big problem with JFBB when they kicked out ParkLogic (and you can't say that I wasn't vocal as hell during that, or that I don't give constructive ideas to Camelback which get completely ignored in all the threads I post a litany of pictures showing how they could easily improve).

 

He is not continuing to patronize a business, he is using what he paid for already. What you are basically telling him is that, yes you bought your car and you complain that it doesn't run as advertised - but you've already bought it so SHUT UP ABOUT IT and stop using it if you don't like it. Doesn't make much sense now does it?

 

Its not like he is running up and buying lift tickets every time he wants to get angry while on skis. And the bottom line is - that pass purchase was based on a HUGE AMOUNT OF MARKETING THAT HAS IN NO WAY TRANSLATED TO ON THE HILL PERFORMANCE.

 

People say - hey if you don't like park go somewhere else. Ok, but where was the pre-season marketing saying "Our park may suck, but we have the best freeriding in the poconos". Instead it was - New zaugg this, new pipe that, park pass this, big improvement in the park that - and what was the result - not that.

 

If you read his posts - that is the bottom line. I can understand if you don't like the delivery, but honestly compare Papa Steeze to the papa haters who have cropped up and he is about a thousand times more mature than you guys.

[Papasteeze]

As a customers, we all have choices. If you continue to support a business that doesn't meet your needs or expectations why is that the businesses fault? At what point should you be responsible for the decision you made?

 

At some point you have made a decision that, in balance, that business is your "best" option. Loudly complaining about a business you continue to patronize is inane.

 

I find it amusing that Papa continues to vociferousoy complain and denigrate CB, yet continues to go there. Why does he goe there? Becuase every time he goes he has decided it is his best option at that time, better than the other mountains in the area.

 

He doesn't like the park or pipe at CB. He doesn't like Blue. He likes the park at BB, but wouldn't recomend they install a proper pipe. He likes Elk, but I haven't heard what he thinks of their park. Frankly, I don't think you could please him.

 

Tom, maybe you missed this part. several management personel at CB persuaded me to hang in one more year at CB over the spring, summer and fall. They convinced me that CB would meet my expectations park wise. The indications with new zaugg and pipe, the CMS school, the park pass programs, the dozen "new"rails all preseason, were good and convincing enough for me purchase passes.

 

When the season got here, I started realizing the mistake I made. Immediatly getting shut down with answers to my questions, like, "why not set out a few rails for the kids to hike on Laurel" The things I and numerous others complain about would not take very much effort or expense to remedy. It is the attitude at CB - you can even see a glimpse of it from some of the staff that posts here.

 

Why do I go there? Maybe I just dropped my son off at Ski Team? Maybe I keep hoping that there will be a marked improvement, like steeper landings or something, just something. I go there to drop my kid off to train in the pipe for a BIG comp coming up.

 

This is a great quote as an example.

 

Camelback does not give me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside when i'm on the snow there. I think some of it has to do with the negative publicity they get from these moves, the other part of it is something I just can't pin down. Its almost like they feel like they are doing you a favor by simply having snow on ground.

 

It's not just us couple of people who take the time to post on PASR, it numbers in the hundreds of people I talk to everywhere, all the time. I doubt not a single person on this board or anywhere covers the number of resorts or spends the number of hours on those slopes talking about the snow.

 

Why is it the businesses fault? Because I was misled.

 

A. I was lied to.

B. The people doing the talking were lied to

C. They are not capable of delivering

D. They don't know how.

 

 

I accept responsibility for my decision and I also accept the responsiblity to inform other consumers, which is what I am doing. CB can talk all they want about thier new pipe and how great it is however the truth about thier park and pipe is that they poor quality when it is open. I take responsibility to inform CB and others that they are not great and seemingly do not care about core snow lovers and only care about there weekend noob ticket.

 

Elk doesn't advertise parks first and foremost. Blues snow quality has sucked nearly every time we have been there, which isn't that often. BB probably will not ever have a pipe - no ROI - I can understand that. BC is a fantastic little hill with a great Vibe. Shawnee is well, shawnee. Ok I'm done for now. Off to Killington and Whaleback on the return trip.

[im rick james]

We know you were lied to. Youve told us a million times. It is practically march and you are still whining about how you were lied to. This began in December; time to move on buddy this ship has sailed.

And Method as for calling me immature.. its opposite day.. so thanks for calling me mature, i do my best to keep things within the realm of what is appropriate.

[Tom]

Method,

 

Caveat Emptor.....

 

Your car analogy is interesting, but my point would be if you bought a car that didn't run as advertised and you kept taking it back to the dealer and it never got fixed, wouldn't you eventually take it somewhere else to get fixed? If you didn't and kept driving it as is, at what point is it your fault for it not getting fixed?

 

 

Papa,

 

Caveat Emptor

 

I understand you felt you were misled.

 

You also reinforced my point. The reason you sometimes go to CB is because for you, at those times, it is the best option available to you.

 

You choose to drop your kid off to ride the pipe for practice this past weekend at CB over Blue, BB, Elk, Shawnee? Why? Becuase as bad as you say CB pipe is, you felt it was the best choice for your kid to practice. You don't ride BB in their forum for not having a pipe and not being willing to invest in one. Would you be happier if CB removed the pipe, sold the zaugg so your kid had nowhere to practice?

[Sno Mountain Skier]

If you are looking for a good pipe come to SNO. Its been outstanding every single time i have hit it, while it might be short, only 4 hits. Its quality makes up for it greatly.

[BurtonGirl]

Thats it. This is such BS.

How come the girls get "cute" guys to stare at and there aren't any hot chick lifties or anything? I might have to write to CB management about this.

 

There's a cute girl liftie I see weekend nights, she seems nice and she's pretty! Get on that... stevenson lift mhm!

[ski911]

I do not understand a few things I guess:

1. Exactly what lies where you told? They did get a Zaugg, they built a larger pipe, they made more rails, they expanded the park both physically and with additional features, they have a park pass system, and probably some other things I can't think of. They never stated that they would have the best park in the world and be perfectly set up and designed. It is way better than it was, and has improved over the course of the season. Yes, it is not as good as some places, but it has improved. Marketing is just that. I am reasonably sure that the focus of the campaign was not at you and only you. It is designed to lure in more guests. You may call it lies, but, Ford is not the best built truck in America either. My point is, you and others are not happy with how the parks turned out, we get it. Changes have been discussed, maybe not formally, but , there is talk going on.

 

2. Why is it you (and others) can say whatever derogatory remarks about CB you want to, but, if it is rebuted you cry foul?

[phillycore]

FWIW

 

I came and skied at CB on sunday with and open to close pass and had a F'N blast.

 

The lifts are quick and all high speed ones were operating.

All the runs were open and groomed nicely.

The staff did an OK job keeping the lines moving. (but NO mountain that I've been to in the poconos has EVER done a good job managing lift lines)

I personally could care less about some peoples "issues" with CB, I personally had a lot of fun and got plenty of runs in without any real waiting whatsoever.

I wish people would stop whining about this and that and just STFU and ski or board.... creative criticism is one thing, and incessant bitching is another.

You basically sound like a bunch of bitches complaining so much about it. I get the fact that this forum got it's roots form CB issues in the past, but hasn't it progressed past that point yet??

Come on get real, stop bitching and moaning and start skiing and having fun...

[Papasteeze]

You choose to drop your kid off to ride the pipe for practice this past weekend at CB over Blue, BB, Elk, Shawnee? Why?

 

 

 

Would you be happier if CB removed the pipe, sold the zaugg so your kid had nowhere to practice?

 

I dropped him off because they advertise that they have a 13 foot pipe. I made a decision to allow him to stay late to ride in the pipe that supposedly was going to be open to the public at 4pm by the marketing director, witnessed by the owner.

 

As far as not getting the zaugg or the new pipe, that would have put them the same place as they were last year, I probably would not have gotten a pass if they had not hyped it so much preseason. as far as I am concerned, the pipe not being open is the same as not having one.

 

 

2. Why is it you (and others) can say whatever derogatory remarks about CB you want to, but, if it is rebuted you cry foul?

 

Rebutted? Really.. I wish I had more time to spend on this.. You need to get out and see the park scene at other mountains to understand the total let down . ex. Today, 180 miles south in a field was 3 little jibs set up at the bottom of an embankment, kids were scroungin snow just to hit them.

 

 

 

Lets try this analogy, what if you paid for a recreational event and just at the beginning of it they decided to close it for an unexplained reason. Would you just go home and get over it?

[Ski]

If you are looking for a good pipe come to SNO. Its been outstanding every single time i have hit it, while it might be short, only 4 hits. Its quality makes up for it greatly.

 

I love Sno Mtn...and the owners and the changes and the empty lift lines and everything else except the $7 chicken nuggets. It sure is good to have a mountain you love.

 

 

 

 

(Rob, you're gonna get an ulcer, you know...)

[Papasteeze]

(Rob, you're gonna get an ulcer, you know...)

 

 

naaaa.... Our season is too freakin short and our home mountain -------------------- fortunatly there are plenty of other options.

[Ski]

naaaa.... Our season is too freakin short and our home mountain -------------------- fortunatly there are plenty of other options.

Ha, well good luck...

[ski911]

There is an explaination for the reason, I do not know it, Craig is researching it, but, either way, you will not be happy with it, no matter what it is.

Oh, and by the way...I have been to quite a few other mountains, and see what is going on. I have said that I agree with some of what you say and have tried to help out. I personnaly do not ride park other than maybe a jump or a slide here or there, but I do talk to alot of riders and ask questions.