Tuesday February 27

[SkiCamelback]

OK -- Here is how I think the day will start out -- Everying is open, with machine groomed packed poe with a little granular snow. The Park Guys think that by afternoon the snow might be more "wet slushy." There's a new term for the National Ski Area Associations official conditions terminology -- wet slushy!! Officially, the snow should be called "Variable." Both Detach's are open. Park's and Pipes are open. Temps are to get up to the mid 30's -- keeping things mild and a little wet.

 

Park set up is the same -- but the crew is looking to change it up in the next few days. I'll post more when I get the info..

 

Calendar updates -- Pond Skimming returns March 17th

 

If you get out today, please add your own report to the thread..

Edited February 27, 2007 by SkiCamelback

[ben]

Tip of the Week 6:

Don't take the ski area's conditions reports seriously.

 

 

EXHIBIT A:

 

Officially, the snow should be called "Variable."

 

EXHIBIT B:

 

 

 

 

And if you watch the conditions reports day-to-day, you'll see that neither the primary nor secondary surface ever changes, despite wide variations in wind, temperature, humidity, and precipitation.

 

Ski areas manipulate their conditions reports to draw in customers, and as a result, the conditions report has gone from being an objective, reliable standard to a questionable marketing tool. The conditions report is built upon the semblance of objectivity, but in reality is nothing but a billboard, an advertisement designed to maximize profits at the expense of the truth.

 

And Camelback has an interesting strategy here: Appease the die-hards by posting relatively honest conditions reports on a board (PASR) that only they will read, and the average day ticket will never see, but maintain the marketing facade on the website for the less experienced skier who doesn't yet have the wisdom to reflexively doubt the conditions report at face value.

 

A great lesson in marketing, yes... A reliable, objective report? Spare me.

[ski911]

I just got in from skiing the whole mountain, and it is in great shape. The snow has some moisture in it, but I would not call it slushy. Grooming was great, the bumps on Cleo are fun. The bumps on rocket need a little face lift, but are fun in a challenge sort of way.

The best skiing was on Cliffhanger. It did not get skied (much)(poachers) yesterday and they left it ungroomed. It was silky like butter.

[SkiCamelback]

Ben raises a few interesting points about conditions reporting

[SkiCamelback]

As a side note --

 

I greatly appreciate Timeless, Glenn and everyone else that posts their own conditions report. Hearing it straight from the skier/rider is the best report there is! (Grilledsteez does a great job with Blue -- conditions and social happenings reporting)

[Metz the Jersey boy]

SkiCB- Please take what I am about to say as a compliment. It is definitely intended as such.

 

SkiCB its nice to see that you're (for lack of a better phrase) coming around. I look at the reports you posted earlier in the year as opposed to the reports you post now. It seems you're providing more of a genuine report here now, as opposed to a sugar coated marketing report. I, for one, appreciate that. And maybe papa will disagree with me, but you've really stepped it up as this season has gone on. We're skiers and riders, and as much as we crave snow and the ability to make turns, we also crave honestly and management loyal to skiers and riders. You're starting to assimilate into the PASR community now, and thats a good thing. You really have a unique opportunity here. You can generate a TON of business for Camelback just by honesty and the way that you treat us here at PASR. We may not be that big in number on the grand scheme of things, but remember that we are in many cases the leaders of our local skiing communities. I'll use myself as an example here. I am essentially (since I haven't seen NJSkiFamily on lately) the sole representative of north/central NJ on here. I live in Somerset County, but I spend a lot of time and have a lot of contact with people in general and skiers from Somerset, Hunterdon, Middlesex, Morris, Union and Mercer counties. I'd say that during a given year I honestly have influence over 100 non-PASR skier visits, due to my reputation as a pretty avid skier. I may or may not be above the average on the board, but say each person on here gets to influence even 25 people who are looking for a place to ski. If you do the math that is a lot of a skier visits, and quite a bit of revenue. To get back on topic, basically, your integrity as judged by PASR members is something that can really make your job easier. You've really made great strides, and I feel you've given a LOT more honest effort as the season has progressed. I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you, and please just continue to give us the facts. Today was the first time in a long time I've woken up and not just really wanted to ski, but to ski Camelback. I can't get out today, due to a ton of errands, my pool league, etc. but I'll definitely be up on Friday. Thanks again SkiCB.

 

I can't very well post this, however without throwing props out to Ski911 and ben. Good job as well guys, and ben, frankly you're the straight shooter of straight shooters... If I didn't know better I wouldn't even know that you work at CB...

[Timeless]

I'm bringing 4 guys from work up tomorrow night, one of them is a season pass holder at Mountain Creek and he has yet to use his pass this year

 

conditions reports are only valid for the hour or so in which they were thought of, most times by the time they are posted they are out of date, the only time they are going to be really useful is if the conditions have been repeatedly good / bad for several days, of if they have reall gone downhill (no pun intended) with no chance of real repair (rocks showing through, really icy, etc).

 

 

SkiCB should contiue his reports, I'll add my comments when I can.

[Glenn]

Agreed on the time element. I think the most important "condition" that could accurately be reported is average wait for a chair. I'd make it out on more sunday afternoons if I knew exactly how bad the crowds were. As long as conditions aren't bulletproof ice, I'll ride pretty much anything, but I'm not going to wait around 15 min for every chair to ride just anything.

 

I don't think CB has the resources for an accurate reading. However getting the heads up at noon on a given day on the number of people in the sullivan gives a pretty good picture about what the rest of the mountain will look like for the rest of the day (if you know the patterns).

 

I think it's kind of intersting that slushy isn't a industry term. Wet granular is a misnomer, as slushy clearly doesn't have enough stability to stay in grains. On the same note, 75+% of the time variable is the snow type. If the mountains are going to "average" the conditions over the mountain perhaps a tertiary condition should be listed as well.

 

I'm bringing 4 guys from work up tomorrow night, one of them is a season pass holder at Mountain Creek and he has yet to use his pass this year

 

 

,,, the only people I can convince to go to CB can't ride very well

[Timeless]

I think it's kind of intersting that slushy isn't a industry term. Wet granular is a misnomer, as slushy clearly doesn't have enough stability to stay in grains. On the same note, 75+% of the time variable is the snow type. If the mountains are going to "average" the conditions over the mountain perhaps a tertiary condition should be listed as well.

 

On the weather channel conditions report a few days ago the listing for Blue was "wet"

 

 

,,, the only people I can convince to go to CB can't ride very well

 

These are all skiers, but hey, you take what you can get.....

[Glenn]

These are all skiers, but hey, you take what you can get.....

 

Oh, same goes for skiers.

[SkiCamelback]

For anyone that is still into this thread -- below are a few terms that I cut & pasted. These are not my words or descriptions, but most ski areas and condition-reporting services use the following terms and definitions when reporting snow conditions. The listing can be found on our trail map if you would want your own copy. Unfortunalty, there is no official "wet Slushie."

 

Primary surface: That trail surface type which describes conditions on at least 70% of the terrain open to skiers.

Secondary surface: The next most prevalent type of snow on the slopes.

 

Description of terms used in describing ski trail surface conditions

 

Powder: Fresh, loose, fluffy, flaky snow crystals, machine made or natural, that have not been compacted.

 

New Snow: Snow that has been machine made or has fallen within the past 24 hours.

 

Wet Snow: Moist and sticky as it falls, it clings and becomes heavy when it

[Metz the Jersey boy]

Oh I can't WAIT until Doug sees this post... We're about to get "hero" "goldilocks" and various other dougisms thrown at us.

[Tom]

a quick look at the webcam will give you an idea on how crowded the slopes are.

[Glenn]

Oh I can't WAIT until Doug sees this post... We're about to get "hero" "goldilocks" and various other dougisms thrown at us.

 

Hero is pretty widely accepted as a type of snow. It's anything that is really easy to carve in, and everyone feels like they ski/ride well in it. Hardpack is not hero snow, and neither is "crud".

 

a quick look at the webcam will give you an idea on how crowded the slopes are.

 

Never thought about that before, but regardless I don't have the tools right now to view their style of video broadcast.

[method9455]

I'm bringing 4 guys from work up tomorrow night, one of them is a season pass holder at Mountain Creek and he has yet to use his pass this year

 

I know many MC pass holders in that situation, I myself used mine once, had I not been hurt I would estimate 8 days on it (1 per weekend for 2 months) and I would go and buy tickets elsewhere rather than use it, not only has the mountain been the usual horrible conditions/terrain/crowds of yesteryear, but the park is 1/4 of what it was in the past, was very late to open, and the snowmaking was embarrasing. This year is going to cost them a huge amount of season pass holders - and they tried to make up for it with the season pass holder only weekends at south, but honestly, the bitter taste is in everyones mouth from when we sat around for a month while the poconos where open.

[method9455]

As for the condition report topic - honestly the only time I look at it is early season for the next day trail openings. Being 50 minutes - 1+ hours from the mountain, and almost 90% of the time being in my boots waiting for opening chair - I leave well before anyone could possibly get up to the mountain and actually ski even one run, come down and post a report about it. So early/late season I check for what trails will be open the next day (based on snowmaking/melting), and then head up and accept what I get whether it be amazing or "horrible" because if I have a day to ride I'll ride no matter what it is, and enjoy it. The "surface condition" on every report is not accurate - even if they're not trying to be disingenuous. The difference between 8am, 3pm, and 8pm is 3 totally different days of riding. I check the weather and check what people said about yesterday. If it was slushy yesterday, and cold tonight, it will be icy in the morning and probably slushy in the afternoon, and perfect midday. If it was nice yesterday and below freezing, it will be nice the next day. If it was nice yesterday but above freezing and below freezing the next day, expect hardpack. Thats pretty much what I do and no ski report will be early enough for it to effect me anyway so I'll post what I actually see when I get home for the afternoon crowd and they can get a chance to decide.

 

That being said - non listed closures PISS ME OFF, because that is the only thing I do look for. Nothing is worse than seeing your favorite trail "open" for the first time of the year, to show up and it not be even closed to covered. Or to show up and the report changed overnight and half the trails are closed because of melting.

[ski911]

As for trail closures, Ski Patrol is responsible for "checking" each trail before letting people up the lifts. Some of this is done on snowmobiles, and some on skis or boards. If there are problems that cannot be easily corrected, we may close a trail at the last minute. This may not be immediatly reflected on a morning trail report. I understand being upset if your favorite trail is not open, but, if it is closed, it is usually not because it is in really good shape.