Tuesday March 6

[bigdaddyk]

It just stinks that Camelback isn't resurfacing the trails like other places...oh well..

 

I haven't been to JFBB in a few days, but I talked to an employee who said that they probably aren't going to blow anymore...I hope that's wrong.

 

Welcome to Camelback, the half mountain.

 

With the full ticket price. I've wanted to go, but refuse to because they are always closing stuff down for dumb reasons, like it's too cold for the kids .

[NJ JIBBER]

It took me one day this season to realize that I never have a need to go back to CB. Between the parks being weak, the ski patrol/rangers ( most ridiculous and abuse of power I've seen anywhere, and I've been riding all over for 15+ years) and high prices, I just can't imagine going back there. My boy even has a slopeside condo there and he can't even drag me there. Sorry CB, you just don't have anything progressive at your mountain. Hence the reason why when you go there it is mostly families, tourists and beginners. Nothing wrong with that, but just don't expect to get a "die hard" following operating the mountain the way you have the past few years.

 

As skiers/riders, our concerns and disappointments will surely be felt by Camelback financially when we continually decide to boycott CB for it's lack of progression or reasoning.

[bigdaddyk]

O.K. I've had enough of all the Camelback bashing..grow up people..if you don't have anything nice to say..don't say it.

 

Where is 4morewars??? He should be the Camelback ambassador..

 

I never bash anybody

[SteezeAndCrackers]

People... Listen to yourselves! "Oh, my friend's friend has a brother whose uncle's coworker told him that Doppelmayr detachables can run in direct crosswinds up to 60 miles an hour." "Oh, my friend's brother who works the lunchline at Blue said the winds were kind of the same as they were at Camelback today, but they didn't shut the six-pack down." Very often on this board, claims are presented as facts when in reality, they're no more than hearsay, speculation, and misinformation. No one on this board has offered any legitimate technical data regarding the Doppelmayr-endorsed safe operation limits for high speed detachable chairlifts of the Stevenson Express's model, and no one has offered any legitimate data regarding the wind velocity at the top of Stevenson on the dates and times in question. Until then, you can't reasonably make claims about when the Stevenson should and shouldn't be shut down. Regardless of what you've heard from your mom's sister's girlfriend, you have no formal credentials, no formal training, and no formal information regarding the safe operation of Doppelmayr detachable chairs. More simply: you don't know what you're talking about. So don't pretend you do.

 

Get the facts. Get the technical data directly from Doppelmayr about the safe operation limits for wind velocity for detachable quads of the Stevenson's type. Get the actual wind-speed data for the top of Stevenson on the dates and times in question. And confirm that high winds were indeed the reason that Camelback shut the lift down.

 

Until you have the facts, and can determine from them that high wind was indeed a 'bullshit reason' for Camelback's closing the chair, don't call it that.

 

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

[Glenn]

Until you have the facts, and can determine from them that high wind was indeed a 'bullshit reason' for Camelback's closing the chair, don't call it that.

 

Ok, lets put it like this...

 

Either CB was extremely negligent in installing the stevenson in such a way that it experiences extreme wind conditions that other mountains in both poconos and elsewhere do not have issues with, or CB has a hair trigger on shutting down the stevenson. I think everyone on this board was giving them the benefit of the doubt on not being extremely negligent on installing the quad.

 

There is clearly a large group of people on this MB who feel that the mountain is poorly operated (for whatever the reason) because a significant portion of the mountain shuts down on a regular basis. That is fact. There also seems to be a large number of reasons, few or none of which seem to make a whole lot of sense as to why the lift shuts down so often. Again fact.

 

It's the internet and if companies like dopplymayr don't publish that sort of information on the web (which they don't) then it's all left to hearsay anyways, so complaining about hearsay is futile. You can believe who you want, and if you stick around for a while, there are some people who really know there stuff, and some who don't.

[Papasteeze]

There is clearly a large group of people on this MB who feel that the mountain is poorly operated (for whatever the reason) because a significant portion of the mountain shuts down on a regular basis. That is fact. There also seems to be a large number of reasons, few or none of which seem to make a whole lot of sense as to why the lift shuts down so often. Again fact.

 

There is one obvious reason for shutting down that lift that is consistent.

[SteezeAndCrackers]

Ok, lets put it like this...

 

Or better yet, let's demand the relevant information from Camelback itself. Then we'll know once and for all whether high wind was a good reason for shutting the lift down.

 

How about it, SkiCamelback?

 

1) a) What does Doppelmayr say is the safe operating limit for direct crosswinds on the Stevenson?

Up to what direct crosswind velocity is Camelback comfortable operating the Stevenson? Is it any lower than Doppelmayrs maximum?

 

2) On each of the last few times the Stevenson was shut down for high winds, what was the direct crosswind velocity measured at the windiest point of the chair? Did it meet or exceed Doppelmayr's limit? Camelback's limit? And if not, why was the lift shut down?

[Papasteeze]

I am too lazy to search - but didn't we have this debate last year and it was determined manufacturers specs for that lift were at gusts to 60mph and CB shuts down at gusts to 40mph? Vague specs, I know, but that is the gist of what I remember.

[Papasteeze]

I found this thread from last year.. I know there is more.

 

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...33&hl=gusts

 

 

HAHAHA another good thread...

 

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...=3183&st=20

 

 

FOUND IT. not necessarily dependable info, but it does prove there is some kind of consistent issue with the closing of the lifts at CB

 

 

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...07&hl=gusts

 

I still contend that...................

 

There is one obvious reason for shutting down that lift that is consistent.

 

ECONOMICS..........

[Glenn]

Or better yet, let's demand the relevant information from Camelback itself.

 

Well, I don't think thats going to happen for a number of reasons.

 

First, any information provided by CB would be hearsay as well, and it's their credibility in question. They could (potentially) provide whatever numbers "work out" so they are acting in a fashion which would make the die hards happy, or at least less irritated at their decision.

 

Secondly, if their data did show that they were way to conservative about wind speeds, or in fact wind speeds had nothing to do with the decision this puts some member of the CB staff to blame. Basically the rep would be setting up his co-worker to get reemed on the internet. Some might not care about that, others would alot. There is no way I would knowingly show how any of my fellow PASR staff members screwed up and "leave them to the dogs."

 

Thirdly, the CB reps currently are content letting members complain as the members of the this board are largely not in their target demographic. We don't have enough pull yet to change the minds of the weekenders, so CB still makes their money, and doesn't have to own up to mistakes, or otherwise dumb decisions.

 

I'd be thrilled if they did post the info, but I just don't find it likely that accurate info will be posted. In the meantime, see my previous post.

[method9455]

People... Listen to yourselves! "Oh, my friend's friend has a brother whose uncle's coworker told him that Doppelmayr detachables can run in direct crosswinds up to 60 miles an hour." "Oh, my friend's brother who works the lunchline at Blue said the winds were kind of the same as they were at Camelback today, but they didn't shut the six-pack down." Very often on this board, claims are presented as facts when in reality, they're no more than hearsay, speculation, and misinformation. No one on this board has offered any legitimate technical data regarding the Doppelmayr-endorsed safe operation limits for high speed detachable chairlifts of the Stevenson Express's model, and no one has offered any legitimate data regarding the wind velocity at the top of Stevenson on the dates and times in question. Until then, you can't reasonably make claims about when the Stevenson should and shouldn't be shut down. Regardless of what you've heard from your mom's sister's girlfriend, you have no formal credentials, no formal training, and no formal information regarding the safe operation of Doppelmayr detachable chairs. More simply: you don't know what you're talking about. So don't pretend you do.

 

Get the facts. Get the technical data directly from Doppelmayr about the safe operation limits for wind velocity for detachable quads of the Stevenson's type. Get the actual wind-speed data for the top of Stevenson on the dates and times in question. And confirm that high winds were indeed the reason that Camelback shut the lift down.

 

Until you have the facts, and can determine from them that high wind was indeed a 'bullshit reason' for Camelback's closing the chair, don't call it that.

 

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

Hi, who are you? Someone who shouldn't be posting here apparently - I'd say one of the idiots banned recently but you write much too coherently for that. So you joined today just to post that - I would be someone who works for Camelback. So if you want us to get the tech specs - how about YOU give them to us, or better yet, tell us what the wind speeds are in question. Since none of us can get up there to find out for ourselves what the wind speed is (since the lift is closed how can I get check out the wind speed with my anometer? And obviously any forecast for the area is wrong because the wind speed is a very specific local condition - the only people with that data would be Camelback employees)

 

As for the safe wind limit on the lift - its hard to find out for that exact model becuase I don't know what model it is beyond a Dopplymar 4 person hispeed detachable. However I'll tell you this - Dopplymar can build lifts to operate in much higher wind speeds than what you are dealing with, if anything it was an improperly speced/ and/or cost cutting measure to buy a lift that closes this often. The engineering and technology is there, its proven, and if Camelback has a lift that is unable run in their (seemingly routine) weather conditions - Camelback screwed up the order.

 

As for wind speeds being an issue because the loading area is exposed - from their own literature go to page 5 - you will see a glass wall running the full length of the unloading area for exactly that purpose.

 

I couldn't find technical data on wind speed limits just yet - but give me a little time and I will.

[Skizilla]

You retards should be real proud of yourselves. Way to be dickheads and drive away another mountain rep.

[method9455]

You retards should be real proud of yourselves. Way to be dickheads and drive away another mountain rep.

 

HE'SSSSSS BACCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

 

Yea Skizilla and you should be proud of how you just don't respond when someone completely proves your points wrong, I guess its easier to make fun of Papa's children or something, I see how you are more mature than us. Of course asking a mountain rep a specification about a lift that rarely runs is too mean, we should have made fun of the mountain reps child instead right?

 

In case you wanted to take a stab at trying to continue arguing your point from last week (rather than bury your head in the sand, cover your eyes, and ignore that your opinion might be wrong)-

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...=8095&st=20

[Papasteeze]

I was thinking........ ok, a collective uh oh..

 

 

Really, I think that if Camelback made it known that they close the Stevenson during off peak times, I would not be so disappointed. What is frustrating is to have skied this whole country in every condition imaginable and have my home mountain close lifts at the littlest weather related safety issue being the reason.

 

It would be much more palatable to know that CB closes thier lifts due to low usage (which BTW corresponds with less than optimal weather). I for one would go there in off peak periods not expecting them to be open, not that I would like it. Imagine how pleasantly surprised we would be if the lift was running when we expected it not to be.

 

In the same regards, if there had not been the preseason hype about the parks, I would not have had the reasonable expectations that we had.

 

Over-promising and under-delivering. It's a classic bait and switch tactic to get the sale.

[Skizilla]

HE'SSSSSS BACCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

 

Yea Skizilla and you should be proud of how you just don't respond when someone completely proves your points wrong, I guess its easier to make fun of Papa's children or something, I see how you are more mature than us. Of course asking a mountain rep a specification about a lift that rarely runs is too mean, we should have made fun of the mountain reps child instead right?

 

In case you wanted to take a stab at trying to continue arguing your point from last week (rather than bury your head in the sand, cover your eyes, and ignore that your opinion might be wrong)-

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.p...=8095&st=20

 

You are a dick. I happen to have a life and just because I don't respond to your lame ass arguments doesn't mean jack shit.

 

BTW I never said that nobody ever complains about other mountains so you are talking out your ass as usual.

 

My issue has nothing to do with general complaining. It is with you tools that have no lives and have to spend all day crying in the CB forum because you hate CB.

 

You rusty douchenozzles just want to talk shit about CB but when you get called on it you cry like the bitches you are. Anyone that likes Camelback here is dismissed by you knotted tampon strings as either being ignorant or uninformed. Get a clue and get your head out of your ass.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, who are you? Someone who shouldn't be posting here apparently - I'd say one of the idiots banned recently but you write much too coherently for that. So you joined today just to post that - I would be someone who works for Camelback. So if you want us to get the tech specs - how about YOU give them to us, or better yet, tell us what the wind speeds are in question. Since none of us can get up there to find out for ourselves what the wind speed is (since the lift is closed how can I get check out the wind speed with my anometer? And obviously any forecast for the area is wrong because the wind speed is a very specific local condition - the only people with that data would be Camelback employees)

 

As for the safe wind limit on the lift - its hard to find out for that exact model becuase I don't know what model it is beyond a Dopplymar 4 person hispeed detachable. However I'll tell you this - Dopplymar can build lifts to operate in much higher wind speeds than what you are dealing with, if anything it was an improperly speced/ and/or cost cutting measure to buy a lift that closes this often. The engineering and technology is there, its proven, and if Camelback has a lift that is unable run in their (seemingly routine) weather conditions - Camelback screwed up the order.

 

As for wind speeds being an issue because the loading area is exposed - from their own literature go to page 5 - you will see a glass wall running the full length of the unloading area for exactly that purpose.

 

I couldn't find technical data on wind speed limits just yet - but give me a little time and I will.

 

Like you are some kind of expert?? You should be banned dickwad!! Yeah anyone who likes Camelback has to working for the place. That's some deductive reasoning there Sherlock Assmunch Homes. Get bent!

[method9455]

BTW I never said that nobody ever complains about other mountains so you are talking out your ass as usual.

 

Like I'm surprised. Welcome to PASR. Come to the Camelback forum and say anything negative you want about Camelback and you are applauded.

 

I'm sure if I was going into Blue or JF/BB forums and taking up all the threads with nonsensical crap like bogus marketing it would be a different story.

 

Way to run a board!

 

Really? You have a short term memory. Might want to get that checked out.

 

As for why I think he works for Camelback - he joined TODAY, but has a name that mocks one of our regular members. Obviously he reads here a lot. But he doesn't write like a troll. I think there is some astroturfing on this board, and this is a prime example of it.

 

 

As for me being a dick, I think the post I just threw at you a moment ago was the last mature one I've ever thrown out at someone. And your response to it includes the word "douchenozzle" (creative) and a "knotted tampon string" reference.

 

As for me (and since you used the 2nd person don't say you are not referring to me, if you wanted to point to Papa it would have been 3rd person) being a 'tool' - please do enlighten me on how to live a life. I obviously have failed your standards, if your definition of living correctly is not posting on an internet forum often. I guess schools/grades/activites/sports/relationships mean nothing - daily post count on paskiandride.com is the measure.

 

On a side note - arguing with people like you has done a lot for me in my life, so I'll continue doing it. Whether its the satisfaction of getting something changed for the better, giving my opinion in front of a thousand people (about a dozen times now) or getting a job becuase my future boss was impressed by my ability to debate Rush Limbaugh, arguing with others is basically my passion. I should be a lawyer but I don't want to represent criminals, don't want to make the money of a prosecutor, can't fathom dealing with frivolous civil suits, and don't perceive a big market for constitutional lawyers so instead I'm going to be an engineer. Theres not much debate in engineering - so I'm here arguing with people like you (as well as some other forums).

 

As for why I dis like you and your opinions so much.

1) Your name sticks out so you come up a lot

2) You made fun of Papa's son, I don't know the kid but seriously - thats low

3) You never contribute anything positive

4) Whenever you attack anyone you curse and ask rhetorical questions which is a sign of weakness

5) It's fun to get you mad

6) (and most importantly) you struck a nerve with your "stop complaining" lines. I really dislike (politically) when people say anything along the lines of don't complain/our government knows best/they know better than us etc etc. People talk about fighting for freedom - and then try to interfere with free political speech and true debate of ideas. Although you may not like how some people say them, there are a lot of legitimate points being made here, and a lot of people saying them constructively (or at least civilly). Basically your position defines what I perceive as whats wrong with America. Whether you are republican, democrat, libertarian, socialist, or green - if you tell me to stop talking about something that I think is wrong - I respect that less than someone who completely opposes my opinion but will debate it. Imagine how great this country could be if the majority of people didn't have such an apathetic attitude?

Edited March 7, 2007 by Method9455

[Shadows]

as long as the chairs dont hit the towers, bounce uncontrolably, or get horizontal, the lift should stay running. end of story.

[Skizilla]

As for why I dis like you and your opinions so much.

1) Your name sticks out so you come up a lot

2) You made fun of Papa's son, I don't know the kid but seriously - thats low

3) You never contribute anything positive

4) Whenever you attack anyone you curse and ask rhetorical questions which is a sign of weakness

5) It's fun to get you mad

6) (and most importantly) you struck a nerve with your "stop complaining" lines. I really dislike (politically) when people say anything along the lines of don't complain/our government knows best/they know better than us etc etc. blah blah blah

 

1) Thank you

2) How did I make fun of him Ms Einstein?

3) More talking out your ass. Ha ha

4) That's just fucking lovely! Thanks for the compliment jerky!

5) Thank you

6) What a nice shiny self important rant!! Totally out in left field. We have us a regular Turdgood Marshall Jr. here.

 

You are so full of your own BS you actually believe it. If it was constuctive criticism being given objectively it would be one thing. No it is just people with vendettas attacking CB because they aren't being catered and coddled.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Skizilla

[Shadows]

No it is just people with vendettas attacking CB because they aren't being catered and coddled.

 

catered and coddled? wtf, excuse me for liking to ride the nearest chair lift up the mountain so i dont have to walk. whats the point of paying for a LIFT ticket than?

[Papasteeze]

1) Thank you

2) How did I make fun of him Ms Einstein?

3) More talking out your ass. Ha ha

4) That's just fucking lovely! Thanks for the compliment jerky!

5) Thank you

6) What a nice shiny self important rant!! Totally out in left field. We have us a regular Turdgood Marshall Jr. here.

 

You are so full of your own BS you actually believe it. If it was constuctive criticism being given objectively it would be one thing. No it is just people with vendettas attacking CB because they aren't being catered and coddled.

 

weak, really weak....... dude you were owned hard. now lay over and be quiet....

[Metz the Jersey boy]

It is, in fact, possible to actually like Camelback and have a gripe here or there. I have to say that the closing of the stevenson is more often than not premature. In New Hampshire I was subjected to 78 mile an hour wind gusts and the quad was still running, albeit at mind numbingly slow speed. Once the gusts got over 80 they shut the lift down. That, however was on an extremely busy Saturday. I think that one of the possible problems inherent in running the stevenson during windy periods that are also slow in numbers is the fact that few people ride the stevenson, thus keeping the weight down across the line and each individual chair. This will cause the chairs to move more violently. I'm not making excuses for CB, just throwing something out to think about.

[skigurl]

Metz is right

They close lifts up here because of winds rather often. we have been battling the winds all weeks. it's nuts, i got blown over today walking to class.

[Shadows]

i got blown over today walking to class.

 

maybe they should close school

[skigurl]

that would be nice, we've closed twice for snow but nothing for wind yet, and we normally get a few days in the spring b.c of flooding

[GrandPapaSteeze]

Hey everybody. I'm new to posting on this board but I've been a lurker for a while. I have been going to Blue for the past 5 years.

 

I was talking to a close friend yesterday about this topic while blading at Blue and he said that his cousin's best friend is a liftee at Cameback. He only works on weekends and thus normally works the Baily Lift. He said that the Baily can run in winds less than 70 mph. The wind limit on the Stevenson can't be much less than that.