Ski Magazine Survey and Improvements

[elkskibum]

Hey thought I would start up a conversation, seems like a lot less people look at elk's board then the others.

 

SKI MAGAZINE TOP 10 SURVEY EAST

 

SNOW

8. Elk Mountain

 

Grooming

7. Elk Mountain

 

Value

10. Elk Mountain

 

Weather

7. Elk Mountain

 

 

I know that the surveys can be very strange and seem uninformed to the hard core skier, but that is impressive in the fact that people still have to vote and thus give elk a reputation that people hear about. The only one that is somewhat a stretch is value, they are one of the most expensive mountains in PA (although on par with blue/camelback/sno), and that is coming from a loyal season pass holder. Is is in respect to some of the larger mountains up north, that elk is cheaper than hunter, windham, etc? I know the NY city market plays a huge role in th rankings, so that could be it.

 

Anyway, just wanted to put out a discussion on the board.

 

 

MOUNTAIN IMPROVEMENTS: In the season pass letter Elk said that they had bought 50 new snow guns and a new piston bully. I hope that this means they relize that they need to blow alot of snow early and often, and on more than one trail, to stay competative with the other big boys in the state.

[elkskibum]

this survey shows that most people who read Ski Magazine drop acid

 

hey, it makes the skiing experience more fun

 

Really alot of the results are retarded, but lets be honest, eastern hard pack is eastern hard pack, so unless there's a blizzard snow is hard to judge, and elk usuall y has the 'best' icy conditions in pa

[Ski]

this survey shows that most people who read Ski Magazine drop acid

 

IDK, TP4, I like to ski there for the weather. They have clouds shaped like boobies.

[Ski]

if they had strippers to ride the lift with you i'd def give elk more props

 

Didn't you hear? New for the 2007-'08 season!!!

[trackbiker]

While I read the ski magazine gear ratings with a grain of salt (They never say anything badabout anything. Can you say advertising $$$? ), and with all of the bigger mountains in NY and New England, there is a reason Elk consistently makes the top ten in the east.

I guess it is like fine wine, good oysters, or good beer. You have to acquire a taste for them.

If you're still drinking Boone's Farm in a box, don't like oysters, and you're drinking cheap light, or malt liquor beer in quart bottles; nothing I can say can make you understand why Elk is in the top ten in the east.

[bigdaddyk]

... boobies.

( . ) ( . )

SNOW8. Elk MountainGrooming7. Elk Mountain....

JF should be rated above them, in these two categories.

[Papasteeze]

organized voting campaigns?

[RidgeRacer]

I think it's pretty cool that a local Mt. is being recognized among the big boys in the East, even though Ski Mags ratings have to be taken with a grain of salt. I've skied some of the finset cordouroy I've ever experienced and Elk so I can buy into the snow and grooming ratings. It's a bit warmer than New England so the weather rating doesn't surprise me. But at close to $700 for a season pass, the value rating is a bit confusing. Anyway props to Elk for cracking the top ten in these cateogries.

Edited September 25, 2007 by PA Ridge Racer

[Ski]

It's a bit warmer than New England so the weather rating doesn't surprise me.

 

Winter weather is better in Allentown than at Okemo? That's like saying the waves at Sandy Hook are better than the North Shore of Hawaii because because it rains a few days. I'd sure rather be anywhere in New England from November through May than in the Poconos. This is my home and all but you're a little crazy, bro...

[RidgeRacer]

Winter weather is better in Allentown than at Okemo? That's like saying the waves at Sandy Hook are better than the North Shore of Hawaii because because it rains a few days. I'd sure rather be anywhere in New England from November through May than in the Poconos. This is my home and all but you're a little crazy, bro...

 

Okay maybe that didn't come out right. I figured that Elk's high ranking under the "weather" category could be due to the temps at Elk maybe not being as extreme (cold wise) as they are further north. Snowfall didn't occur to me. Yeah...I'd like to have that one back.

[skierdaddy]

I've been reading ski magazine for many yrs, The rankings always have to be taken in context. Tremblant finishes first overall every yr, but not because of the skiiing, It always ranks up there in service, lifts, village, on mountain food etc.. I would go to jay peak in a minute before tremblant, but that is purely for the skiing, not for the vacation aspect or amenites etc. As far as Elk goes, It is nice that a Pa moutain is ranked every yr in some categories. As far as Snow quality and grooming, folks ,Elk is top notch. I have had a season pass for the past 3 yrs and probably have skiied about 30 days each winter and can honestly say that I never skied on "ice".. Even on rainy days or cold fronts after rain, they do such a nice job grooming and the fact that the lifts are slower and the resort just isn't that crowded definitely is part of the reason. If your looking for nightlife, massive terrain parks, jumps and stuff, Elk is not the place, but if you want quality skiing or riding on actual trails that have enough steeps, bumps, cruisers, and continuous vertical, nothing in pa is close.

[trackbiker]

What skierdaddy and ski said.

You have to realize that the Ski Magazine survey is not a scientific nor a statistical survey. It's simply a survey of their readers.

Holliday Valley, NY always ranks high in the survey. All 650 vertical feet of it. But they get half a million skier visits per year from people from western PA & NY, northeast Ohio, and from across the border in Canada. That's a lot of votes. But I bet out of those 500,000 people, less than 2% have skied Jay Peak. In reality, about the only thing you can take from the survey is that a ranked area does a better job in the category they ranked high in than other ski areas in their region. Because most of the people doing the voting don't ski anywhere else on a regular basis. People aren't going to vote for areas they have never skied, even if they are better areas, because they have no experience with them.

By the way, Blue Mtn. ranked high in the east on lifts; it's a shame they won't have any new trails this year to help their downhill capacity match their uphill capacity. Elks lifts may be "slow" compared to HS lifts, but isn't the downhill part of the trip the most important, and the reason we are all there in the first place?

Edited September 27, 2007 by trackbiker

[Glenn]

I have had a season pass for the past 3 yrs and probably have skiied about 30 days each winter and can honestly say that I never skied on "ice"

 

Um, you must not be looking. I found ice (not on purpose mind you) through 2 feet of snow on valentines day this past year. I have no clue what things are like normally, and I'm sure Elk does a great job. Saying there is no ice on the mountain, even after a thaw refreeze cycle is beyond believable though. I found ice in the usual spots on the backsides of bumps when I was there. I'm sure there are other spots where it turns up also, when 2 feet of snow is not covering it, and the weather isn't so friendly (ie thaw->refreeze).

 

Also, I know the difference between hardpack and ice, so don't bother with that argument.

[skierdaddy]

When I said Ice, I meant "boilerplate" ice that I used to ski on at camelback and blue etc. Yes, there is always going to be icy spots and some marginal conditions, even out west. I But what I meant was as far as pa goes, Elk's conditions always seem to be the enjoyable even when the weather doesn't cooperate. I was there on Valentines day as well, and yes it wasn't great powder, but it also was sleet and freezing rain for several hours that really hurt the conditions. Some resorts just know how and when to groom, blow snow etc. and Elk has it down. Sorry blue mt guys, but the grooming and snowmaking decisions there are not very good. Camelback is just too crowded, although the grooming has improved greatly over yrs ago. (I'll give you an example of what I am talking about, Blue will blow snow whenever possible, which sounds like the optimal thing to do, but it is not, blowing snow in marginal temperatures with the wrong humidity levels creates a wetter snow, which during that day after it is blown will not groom nicely and it usually is tough after that., again just an example, and I'm not talking about trying to open the resort, I mean during the season.)

[Glenn]

Elk's conditions always seem to be the enjoyable even when the weather doesn't cooperate.

 

Elk is magical, they don't have ice during thaw refreeze cycles? If so I'm relocating TODAY.

 

I was there on Valentines day as well, and yes it wasn't great powder

 

I drove through that mess for 2+ hours getting to elk on valentines day. I know the make up of the snow, and honestly the powder was fine, and well worth the drive considering how much fun the tree riding was. The ice I came across was from the original snow pack in the bumps.

 

You don't drive a golf do you?

[skierdaddy]

Elk is magical, best skiing in pa hands down, can't wait until winter..

[skierdaddy]

Not in the top 3 for skiing?????????????? oh maybe you meant shortest slopes or shortest season or least amount of challenging terrain or poor grooming or too crowded?? HA HA, just bustin, whatever pa resort you call home of course is the best. It's all about what you enjoy and that is all that matters. Lets all hope for a cold start this yr!!!!!!!

[OutCold]

No way man cb has nothing on elk

 

How many times have you been to Elk TP4? Maybe you just hit it on a bad day...Every time I've been there, the snow has been phenomenal compared to CB and Blue.

[Ski]

Okay maybe that didn't come out right. I figured that Elk's high ranking under the "weather" category could be due to the temps at Elk maybe not being as extreme (cold wise) as they are further north. Snowfall didn't occur to me. Yeah...I'd like to have that one back.

heheheh...we knew what you meant...heck, we argued the temperature difference between MC and CB (wasn't it 4 degrees?)...

[Ski]

blue, cb, and sno in no particular order. even blue has better snow than elk

 

Well, Blue probably has 10x the snowmaking capacity as Elk, so the constant season-long touch-ups do make for better snow conditions more days than not. Elk really needs to step up their snowmaking investment---just how long they can rely on some phantom Ski Mag rating is probably limited, especially with the trend toward warmer winters with less natural snow. Elk claims 100 inches, but a groomer compacts that to just over 13 inches. How can you even begin to legitimately promote your superior snow when you are relying on such a miniscule amount?

 

Both CB and Blue have some real nightmarish weekends, but both have far more better snow days than Elk simply because of vastly superior snowmaking. Elk's snow quality doesn't even compare to BB's...not even close.

 

Is grinding up old man made snow over and over really better than making new snow, even though temps may be marginal? Not to me...

 

Elk is a great place, not for the snow---IMO--, but for the fact that it's in a remote area.

[skierdaddy]

10 times the snowmaking capacity of Elk??????????? No not at all. They may have a bit more, but Elk has 250 snow guns and purchased 50 new fan guns just this fall. Elk also blows snow as much as any of the other mountains. I have been to ELk in late March and they are still blowing at night to ensure good snow. CB, Blue, & Sno all have great snowmaking capacity, you have to in Pa and Elk does as well. But again, the difference is snow quality is simple, less crowds, higher elevation, further north, more natural snowfall, and knowing how and when to groom.

[RidgeRacer]

blue, cb, and sno in no particular order. even blue has better snow than elk

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Blue's snow compared to Elk.

[Timeless]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Blue's snow compared to Elk.

 

I've not made it to Elk yet, but if the snow is worse than Blue's then I'm never going

 

Blues snowmaking should be sponsored by Chips Ahoy, or Pepperidge Farm.

[RidgeRacer]

I've not made it to Elk yet, but if the snow is worse than Blue's then I'm never going

 

It's not

Edited September 28, 2007 by PA Ridge Racer

[elkskibum]

On the topic of snowmaking, Elk does in fact have a fairly state of the art powerful snowmaking system, the only problem is their practice of not really using it. The main reason is the money, the owner has a very 'nice' reputation as being a cheap a**hole, but they really do have the capability to make a lot of snow fast if they use it. The good new is the old "blow on one trail at a time" mentality is starting to change, either because of the new guns the past couple years or the realization that the other mountains are going all out and they need to as well to step up, they can no longer wait for the big snowstorms to help them out (sadly). As far as blue having better snow than elk, I would strongly disagree; Elk has less skier traffic, less of a freeze/thaw cycle (although they do have one all the time) and thus the snow is not usually nearly as good. I have not skied at blue nearly as much as elk, but the 10-12 times I have been there it hasn