Ski Magazine Survey and Improvements

[Glenn]

I'm not sure if ski counts as a "valley people", but he's the furthest thing from a sketchy local. Never the less, I wouldn't mess with that dude.

 

For some reason I don't think the gangters (yes with the -ers ending) and the scumbags don't frequent sno too much.

[Schif]

I am a 100% certifiable Valley person. I live halfway between Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, there are mountains around me and when I try to talk to people outside of the valley they think I'm nuts. That being said I have no idea where one would come up with the idea that they wouldn't want to mess with valley people. We're generally pretty nice. While the valley does have a fair number of gangsters, Glenn is right, none of them ever go skiing. The only "sketchy locals" I can think of as of right now would be the rictor beez.

Edited October 20, 2007 by Schifdawg

[Sno Mountain Skier]

Watch out for the scranton gangsters on the slopes of Sno.

[CaptDave]

I've been reading the last few posts on Elk and I laugh and wonder if any of you have been there at all. Elk is a different animal. They don't want a hotel. they don't want big crowds etc. And when I see places like Bear Creek in the same sentence as Elk, I laugh, its like comparing Elk to Stowe or Killington. The it's like skiing in Vermont slogan is based on the remote country like feeling and terrain,and is not all that far fetched. again, its not even close to most in vermont. But, as far as OKemo or Stratton, the conditions there a better most of the time, the amont of challenge at Elk is just as good. Okemo is not challenging at all and either is Stratton.The resort mindset is to and always will be to provide its season pass holders and loyal skier base with the best conditions for pure skiing and riding in PA... The conditions at Elk are very good for a pennsylvania mountain and the trail layout and terrain is without question the best in NE pa. I have been skiing for over 20 yrs and have skiied every mountain in pa many times including seven springs, denton hill and blue knob. If you want hotels, massive terrain parks for kids, waterparks etc. Elk is not catered to you. And while Elk may not have the most snowmaking, the quality of snow is top notch for pa and they have over 250 snow guns and blow snow on about 4 trails a day these days. Sno mountain is really not a concern for Elk. As long a they continue to keep the quality.Elk skiers and riders don't want massive crowds and loads of people who don't really know how to ski or ride, hotels and condos etc. It's about the environment of the place and the feel of the place. You can't get that looking at scranton all day.

 

I have been going to Elk since 1977 (30 yrs to your 20) when my folks first taught me to ski. I like the place, I do, but its not all you stroke it to be.....

[Glenn]

Schif.... I don't know you that well, but you seem to be the most normal valley person I've ever met. I hang out with tons of them at school, lots are my friends, but man those guys are f-ed up. One way or another it seems the valley messed with their lives. Some are real scumbags, but most are just really bizarre people who have seen, encoutered, or done some weird, messed up stuff because where they grew up.

 

My mom was born in scranton and always talks about how the mafia used to have a huge presence in the city. Talking to my friends at school, it seems that to a large degree drugs still control alot of stuff that goes on in the city, both in a social and political sense.

 

I'd never hold someones place of origin against them, but I can't count the number of times I learned that a friend, classmate, random douchebag, etc was from scranton and everything became clear.

[Ski]

I'm pretty sure any mafia has long deserted Scranton for places where money changes hands.

 

Oh, hey, Schif: are you of the Schiff's meat store?

[Schif]

Schif.... I don't know you that well, but you seem to be the most normal valley person I've ever met. I hang out with tons of them at school, lots are my friends, but man those guys are f-ed up. One way or another it seems the valley messed with their lives. Some are real scumbags, but most are just really bizarre people who have seen, encoutered, or done some weird, messed up stuff because where they grew up.

 

My mom was born in scranton and always talks about how the mafia used to have a huge presence in the city. Talking to my friends at school, it seems that to a large degree drugs still control alot of stuff that goes on in the city, both in a social and political sense.

 

I'd never hold someones place of origin against them, but I can't count the number of times I learned that a friend, classmate, random douchebag, etc was from scranton and everything became clear.

I will definitely agree with you glennt the valley is one weird place. Its a place you absolutely hate when you're here, but you miss it everytime you leave. People from here are different, just plain different. It really doesn't make too much sense but its true. I'm definitely a little different than the people around me here, but I think I can attribute that to the fact that I'm reasonably well traveled, and I seem to be able to adapt to any situation that I'm in for some reason. There are definitely some places I will never be able to be comfortable in i.e. South Philly or a Texas ranch, but for the most part within the extremes I am able to formulate my thoughts into a medium that is well received by the people around me. Weird stuff happens all the time around here and you just kind of go with the flow. Its definitely a unique place. You can drive for close to an hour north/south and its just cities and towns, go 5 minutes east/west and you're in the mountains. This crazy juxtaposition of people and activities makes for some interesting folks. Especially when you have the two meeting every day in school. Another thing is that while we are relatively close to NY and Philly, its two hours as opposed to the lehigh valley's one. Until recently, this has kept the city people out, and all the valley people in. Its the kind of place where You know everyone in your school district, but its still a decently sized metropolitan area. I kind of find it hard to describe fully in words (especially right now cuz its kind of late). The dynamic of the valley is so unique. I think it would be interesting for me to try to describe it though.

 

If anyone wants me to actually put some thought I can definitely try to get something together tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure any mafia has long deserted Scranton for places where money changes hands.

 

Oh, hey, Schif: are you of the Schiff's meat store?

Nope, no relation to those guys. Even though the time I took my cousin from cooperstown to scranton he made me stop in front of it so he could take a picture for his friends.

 

As for the mafia in the region, they had a very very strong presence back in the day but as of late it has been declining. A lot of the families lose their power when the older members start to die off and the kids don't take over. I know of an example personally where the son who graduated a year before me was just so stupid and incompetent he couldn't take it if he wanted to.

[Rowsdower]

Elk's the only mountain where they denied my at the lifts for having a ticket that expired 10 minutes before, and there was basically nobody riding that day either.

[Glenn]

every mtn does that. CB turned me away when my ticket had expired a minute before.

 

I'm not sure about every mountain. Most will kick you off if it's obvious, but lots of mountains have lax ticket checking policies. Blue doesn't even check at the lift, so in theory you could ride all day on a morning pass. In practice, most people head in to the lodge for food/bathroom/warmth at some point. BB they don't check very closely, and I bet you could get a number of laps in before anyone said anything. Shawnee is the same way.

 

I don't know how you could be pissed that they would kick you off after the time you've paid for. It is simply an added bonus when you get the freebie lift rides.

[Glenn]

oh im not mad. my point is more that he seemed mad that elk wouldnt let him ride the lift when his pass was 10 minutes over. i dont see why they would let him ride. i can understand at blue not letting you on cause as you said you could ride all day (plus there are some big assholes who work at blue, especially a few ski patrollers, but most of the workers there are nice)

 

I wasn't saying you got mad. I was referring to rowsdower. My comment to you was simply I've seen both lax and strict policies regarding when tickets are no longer valid.

[Ski]

Speaking of scanning at a gate (like at Blue) instead of ticket lines, why don't more people just sneak onto the slopes above the learning area?

[poconoceancity]

Speaking of scanning at a gate (like at Blue) instead of ticket lines, why don't more people just sneak onto the slopes above the learning area?

 

How? I can't picture it.

[Glenn]

Speaking of scanning at a gate (like at Blue) instead of ticket lines, why don't more people just sneak onto the slopes above the learning area?

 

I think a lot of people do, and a lot of people get caught.

[Ski]

We walked out the upstairs entrance of the lodge and directly upslope past a smaller building and equipment. We went up to the top of the School Hill and there's a path to the dogleg of Easy Out. I'm not advocating poaching, but I don't think it's inappropriate to discuss an obvious way some people may be finding their way onto the slopes. IDK, maybe there's a barrier there during the ski season.

[Glenn]

We walked out the upstairs entrance of the lodge and directly upslope past a smaller building and equipment. We went up to the top of the School Hill and there's a path to the dogleg of Easy Out. I'm not advocating poaching, but I don't think it's inappropriate to discuss an obvious way some people may be finding their way onto the slopes. IDK, maybe there's a barrier there during the ski season.

 

Oh, THAT spot. I think the ski school is right there, and they could potentially keep an eye on it. I've heard of way more people trying to sneak in further down on the mountain within eye sight of the lift loading.

[Rowsdower]

oh im not mad. my point is more that he seemed mad that elk wouldnt let him ride the lift when his pass was 10 minutes over. i dont see why they would let him ride. i can understand at blue not letting you on cause as you said you could ride all day (plus there are some big assholes who work at blue, especially a few ski patrollers, but most of the workers there are nice)

 

Not bitching at Elk per se. It just doesnt seem like it has a very laid back attitude. Usually they'll let you go once or at least nicely tell you that you'll need to get another ticket to keep riding. The guy there wasnt very nice about it even though they didnt have a working clock at the lift. He basically looked at his wristwatch and told me to take a hike.

 

Neither do I make poaching a practice. Not paying to ride is basically like not paying for your dinner.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Rowsdower

[elkskibum]

Considering I started this little war going on between sno and elk, I thought I would add my opinion on the whole thing.

 

I have been skiing at Elk for nearly my entire life (although that is not very long), but have been to almost every mountain in eastern pa at least once, including sno a couple times and blue probably a couple dozen. I mingled in junior racing for a little and now teach there on my winter break, so needless to say im very attached to the place. However, they could be in a little trouble if they do not get their act together and recognize sno as being a huge player in the pa ski industry and their main competitor. I always get pissed at the 'locals' that always cry that there are actually other people on the mountain other than them, and then bit#h about them not blowing any snow or opening any trails. I agree that a huge portion of the mountains business is their die-hard skiers and people going there for the charm, but a huge money maker is ski lessons, and if you dont have any new blood and new skiers, you wont have any lessons, and will lose a ton of money.

 

I think their management is torn themselves; they try to maintain their 'skiing in vermont' attitude yet want to make money. The snowmaking has greatly improved the last couple of years, they now will actually blow on more than one trail at a time and have opened a lot of terrain quickly the last few seasons, which is a far cry from even a few years ago when they would be happy with 2/3 of the mountain open in mid February. I know they have a lot of plans for improvements; a whole new snowmaking pond is actually on the agenda, if and when it gets done is anyones guess. There have been rumors of a high speed lift for a year now, and they have a huge amount of land to expand onto (on the east side/ south mountain) if they ever buy the land, which could have happened a while ago if the mountain's owner wasnt an a##hole to the people a generation ago.

 

All in all, elk is getting more modern, but they seem to still be stuck in the middle: appease to their very loyal but sometimes delusional season pass holders, or try and get more day-trippers and beginners to come and bring with them much needed money to improve and stay competitive. The next few years will be very interesting in what happens to elk, whether sno is a success or not, elk has some decisions it needs to make.

 

-(End of rant)

[trackbiker]

elkskibum:

Thanks for the summary. It's nice having imput from someone who works at an area.