camelback to drop skiing?????

[tretiak]

so when talking to joel the other day he mentioned to me that camelback is thinking about dropping skiing and just doing camelbeach because it is bringing in more money now im not sure but i figured i would drop something news for you guys to know about

[Barb]

I can't see that happening. All that real estate up there. People didn't buy those places to go to a waterpark.

[librider]

deffinitly not going to happen.

[Glenn]

As long as camelback ski area continues to make money it will remain open. The focus of the resources certainly appears as though it will shift in the long run.

[Papasteeze]

It was awesome to see Camelbacks mountain school at Big Boulder yesterday.

[Ski]

Ha, Camelbeach isn't doing that well. If your winter op is doing $4 million a year and your summer op is doing $6 million, why would you shut down 40% of your business? Why would you even shut down 10% of your business?

 

 

Although I could see CB turning the whole mountain into snow tubing.

[Glenn]

Why would you even shut down 10% of your business?

 

My dad headed up a company for a few years funded by an entrepreneur as an offshoot company. This particular Entrepreneur would not move forward on any project unless there was an expected gain of 25% of invested monies, and if a particular venture wasn't pulling in 25% of invested monies, he would cut off the funding. At the time (maybe true today?) he could turn a 25% profit in the money market, and that was a better use of his funds.

 

The 25% could be wrong, but I remember hearing it and was surprised at how high a percentage profit he wanted.

 

... so in the case of CB, if they spend their money and put in say a new lift and it generates a 3% increase in profits, or they install a new concession stand for camel beach and it turns a 15% increase in profits, then even though both are profitable, they should only spend money investing in camelbeach, until that market is depleted. Or so goes the theory stated above. Likewise if upkeep costs for camelback turn less profit than upkeep costs for camelbeach, then camelback will either not be kept up, or will more likely shut down.

 

Still... I don't see it happening any time soon. In the case of the entrepreneur he could invest in the money market year round. Camelback is winter only and camel beach is summer only. Though they draw from the same funds, they are mutually exclusive markets, and making money year round is kind of important, especially for the big wigs with offices.

[Ski]

One reason some companies won't fund projects under such a high return rate is because there is an automatic assumption of 'favorable' book keeping. Even with an independent audit, number are only as good as the people reporting them.

 

CBeach would take a big hit if CB closed. They draw a lot of their customers from winter visitors. It's year 'round advertising. And water parks don't advertise in the winter.

[Papasteeze]

The 25% could be wrong, but I remember hearing it and was surprised at how high a percentage profit he wanted.

 

 

The venture capital money that I know are higher than that.

[trtaylor]

Anyone know what Camelback's annual skier/boarder visits are? Any any guess what the average ticket yield is?

 

(Not a trick question, I don't know the answer)

[Papasteeze]

Anyone know what Camelback's annual skier/boarder visits are? Any any guess what the average ticket yield is?

 

(Not a trick question, I don't know the answer)

 

I heard that this info is guarded 250k -300k visits. Ticket yield with everything, passes, rentals, school, concessions? Anyone want to counter my guess of $50 per ticket?

[First Grade Teacher]

Haha..whatever Joel is smoking...can I have some...

 

If you ever met Joel, you would understand.

 

[devious]

where do you guys get your info from , camelback closing? NEVER there is alot of improvments going into the mtn......

[toast21602]

where do you guys get your info from , camelback closing? NEVER there is alot of improvments going into the mtn......

 

i'm pretty sure he said he got his info from Joel. and papasteeze just knows everything about every mountain in the continental US. so don't worry about him.

[Papasteeze]

i'm pretty sure he said he got his info from Joel. and papasteeze just knows everything about every mountain in the continental US. so don't worry about him.

 

hahahahaa ah yep, my guesses are always spot on.... and don't you let me forget it!

[devious]

yeah another know it all , its whatever im sure camelback will still be skied on when hes underground , ya have to love all this b.s hype ppl make up in there little dysfunctional minds............ .........

[snorovr]

It was awesome to see Camelbacks mountain school at Big Boulder yesterday.

 

Yes! I'm hoping to get some of the guys and girls in the freeride ski and snowboard programs at Blue to BB and BC for a day or two this season.

[Barb]

I wish BB would get back to me about their freestyle program.

[sibhusky]

Camelback does about 300,000 skier visits per year..I would guess their average ticket yield is $30-40 including season passholders..

That sounds low to me. Just read an article on our mountain here and they were saying 260,00 last season. Now here, if we get 7000 people in a day, we're bitching about the 10 minute lines and I remember someone at CB saying 10,000 to 12,000 on a weekend day was common. If we forget Xmas is "all weekend", and multiply 10,000 times 28 days, you get 280,000. So, you've just come close to that 300,000 leaving out all the midweek skiing, all the President's Day, all the Christmas, all the MLK. If we throw those in, assuming 200 midweek per day or 1000 for M-F, we add 14,000, plus 50,000 for Xmas, plus another 20,000 for the holiday weekends. That's 364,000 and that's really conservative. I bet there's a ski industry database somewhere that has this info?

 

Edit: Just found this quote, dated 2005: "Camelback recorded 350,000 visits last year while Camelbeach logged 300,000." And another one: "Camelback’s idyllic location, along with a keen attention to detail, is a main reason why the resort attracts on average 350,000 skier visits each year." Last was in this article: http://www.snoweastmagazine.com/articles/G...a/Camelback.pdf

Edited November 20, 2007 by sibhusky

[trtaylor]

I heard that this info is guarded 250k -300k visits. Ticket yield with everything, passes, rentals, school, concessions? Anyone want to counter my guess of $50 per ticket?

 

So, $15 million in winter revenue. Well, that would be ticket sales only. On top of that there would be services margin, food and rentals. Any guesses on operating costs?

[poconoceancity]

So, $15 million in winter revenue. Well, that would be ticket sales only. On top of that there would be services margin, food and rentals. Any guesses on operating costs?

Anywhere form 70%-90% of the 15 million.

[Papasteeze]

I'll never forget how excited a greeter was to say they hit 3000 tickets on a particular day early season.. like it was a magic number.

I remember someone at CB saying 10,000 to 12,000 on a weekend day was common.

thats like 800 per acre, holy crap!

[Glenn]

I seem to remember Craige saying 6,000 was a typical weekend.

I wish Blue had greeters and that's like 80 per acre..Math boy..lol..

Even 80 per acre would be misleading, since at any one time a large portion of those actually "on the hill" will be on the lifts or in line. Not to mention all those who left early, or are in the lodge.

[DiMe]

Common guys of course Camelback isn't going to close for skiing and snowboarding. We have a hotel being put in for 2009 for all seasons! :lol :lol :rofl :lol

 

I'm sorry I love the place but cbs marketing and improvement plans always make me giggle. The sad thing is marketing and mtn improvements are somewhat irrelivant to cbs profits mainly because of the location and the majority crowd they attract so what does it matter. I think the decisions should be made by those who still truly have a passion for the sport of skiing and riding and not those just running a business or doing your job although all it really is, is a business and money is all that it comes down to. Thats just the type of world we live in. Just my opinion though.

Edited November 21, 2007 by DiMeThIcOnE