Nordica Doberman vs. Atomic Race Tech vs Head Raptor

[Bobert540]

I am in the market for new boots and here is what I was recommend by Billy Kaplan.

 

-Nordica Doberman Pro 130

-Head Raptor 120 RS

-Atomic RT CS 130

-Atomic RT TI 150

 

I was wondering if any of you had experience with any of these and what your opinions are on them. Thanks!

[Ski]

I am in the market for new boots and here is what I was recommend by Billy Kaplan.

 

-Nordica Doberman Pro 130

-Head Raptor 120 RS

-Atomic RT CS 130

-Atomic RT TI 150

 

I was wondering if any of you had experience with any of these and what your opinions are on them. Thanks!

I'd def run it past the Epic people since they have a wider variety of adult racers. My only advice would be careful not to go too stiff. All mountain boots feel like mush to me and I feel like I can't trust them when I have to recover and get back to a higher line in a steep spot, but a lot of people make the mistake of going too stiff. Most ASRA and all NASTAR courses require quite a bit of gliding and I think a slightly softer boot than an all out race model is a big advantage.

 

You want feel connected to your skis---and thus the snow---but too much of a good thing decreases agility.

 

I'd match the flex range that's right for you, then get a few on your feet. I have a friend who swears by the Dobermans....but he's a rep for Nordica

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Bobert540]

My past boots were a stiff flex and I liked them, although I know they are not a true 110 as they are listed but regardless it was a stiff flex for a rec. boot. I feel the same way you do about all mountain boots, just too soft for my liking. I tried on a high end all mount pair of fischer's with a 120 flex and they just felt too soft for me.

[AtomicSkier]

My past boots were a stiff flex and I liked them, although I know they are not a true 110 as they are listed but regardless it was a stiff flex for a rec. boot. I feel the same way you do about all mountain boots, just too soft for my liking. I tried on a high end all mount pair of fischer's with a 120 flex and they just felt too soft for me.

 

Since you're still "new" to racing, and not that big of a guy, I wouldn't go past a 120/130, really. As soft as they may feel in the show, they'll be stiff on the snow, especially when its 25 degrees outside, not 70 degrees in the shop, which makes a huge difference. Just keep that in mind when shopping for boots, and as someone new to racing, don't think you immediately have to jump into the stiffest things, because it will hinder your performance.

 

Stiffer != Better

[Bobert540]

Thanks, I know the boot will always feel softer in the shop. I just felt a huge difference between the fischer all mountain 120 flex vs the fischer rc4 wc 110. I am just seeing what's out there since I am new to the racing side of things. I may wait and try some boots on when I am at sugarbush in December since more shops will probably carry more race boots up there.

[Bobert540]

Well thanks to all of you I will be going with a boot no stiffer than a 110 Flex. Now I just need to find the Atomic boot I want....

[Bobert540]

Well after being on the phone with shop owners I have come to the decision to get a Fischer RC4 Race 120. When I was trying on boots, Fischer had the best fit but I was steered away from some people saying that I do not need the abducted stance. After talking to a lot of shop owner's they all had recommend fischer's boot for fitting my foot. The Atomic CS will be too wide for me unfortunately and the Ti model I want is hard to come by. So I decided the Fischer RC4 Race 120 will fit all of my needs. I am curious to see how the abducted stance works with my skiing.

[First Grade Teacher]

I am curious to see how the abducted stance works with my skiing.

Just be careful that your skis don't go out and you face plant.

 

[mbike-ski]

abducted stance

 

curious (and dumb) ......what does that mean?

[Ski]

curious (and dumb) ......what does that mean?

T"he center seam on a ski boot is anything but centered. The foot has a theoretical balance line that bisects the center of the heel and runs through the center of the second toe. Most ski boot "center seams" actually are between one and two degrees inside of center. This results in an abducted stance with the foot mass being outside of center. The outside center position prevents pronation and balances the knock-kneed skier somewhat, but makes it much more difficult to achieve an ideal balance for bowlegged skiers. Since all boots have an abducted stance, a skier with an abducted stance will ride his outside edges. Stretching and/or removing liner material changes the center line on the boot and in many cases makes the skier perform better."

[Timeless]

T"he center seam on a ski boot is anything but centered. The foot has a theoretical balance line that bisects the center of the heel and runs through the center of the second toe. Most ski boot "center seams" actually are between one and two degrees inside of center. This results in an abducted stance with the foot mass being outside of center. The outside center position prevents pronation and balances the knock-kneed skier somewhat, but makes it much more difficult to achieve an ideal balance for bowlegged skiers. Since all boots have an abducted stance, a skier with an abducted stance will ride his outside edges. Stretching and/or removing liner material changes the center line on the boot and in many cases makes the skier perform better."

 

I think this comes from the same article I googled to find out as I was curious about this too. I just couldn't get past the repeated references to importance of the "cuff", as if we didn't already know how important that was......

Edited December 6, 2007 by Timeless

[mbike-ski]

uh huh... after a few minutes of surfing i didn't find what kind of voodoo the soma fiscser boot is using

[First Grade Teacher]

uh huh... after a few minutes of surfing i didn't find what kind of voodoo the soma fiscser boot is using

Voodoo sums it up! It's a bunch of crap.

 

[trtaylor]

Ski is right, all ski boots have some abduction built in. The two boots getting the most press this year are the Fischer SOMA's and the Nordica Dobermann Aggressor's, which have much more abduction built in. They each approach it slightly differently however, with the Fischer's being abducted from the center of the foot while the Nordica's are abducted from the center of the heel. Is it a gimick? Probably not. Are they right for everyone? Probably not. And depending on your leg shape, as Ski points out, they could end up being really wrong.

[Ski]

Ski is right, all ski boots have some abduction built in. The two boots getting the most press this year are the Fischer SOMA's and the Nordica Dobermann Aggressor's, which have much more abduction built in. They each approach it slightly differently however, with the Fischer's being abducted from the center of the foot while the Nordica's are abducted from the center of the heel. Is it a gimick? Probably not. Are they right for everyone? Probably not. And depending on your leg shape, as Ski points out, they could end up being really wrong.

 

Just to be clear, I cut and pasted that paragraph (I miss-typed the first quotation mark)...I've never had any alignment issues and the only abductions I've been involved with had to do with Shannon Elizabeth

[yuki]

If you are really serious about a good fit, I'd recommend GMO up at Stratton. True, Greg Hoffman, has gone west but it sounds like he trained his staff well in alignment and balance issues and, making beds.

 

The main attraction of GMO, is that you can have temporary adjustments done, some cardboard and duct tape added by his crew, go out the back door and onto the lift and take a run to see how things feel and then come back and fine tune it some more.

 

At the end of the day you come out with a boot that has been adjusted a few times to where it works perfectly for you.

[mbike-ski]

Voodoo sums it up! It's a bunch of crap.

 

 

OK, I got the poop - but not neccessarily crap...rode the lift with a guy who was on his second day of breaking in his new SOMA rc4's, short and simple is the centerline of the boot is rotated a few degrees out (toe out / heels in) in a more natural stance than traditional. makes a certain amount of sense i guess...Bobert540 keep us updated how its working for ya

[Bobert540]

I actually tried on the Doberman Aggressor WC 130 this weekend and that fit better. That boot as well has the abducted stance as well but from what I understand Nordica's offset is measured from the heel. I will be picking the boots up when I got to Vermont this coming weekend.

[trtaylor]

I actually tried on the Doberman Aggressor WC 130 this weekend and that fit better. That boot as well has the abducted stance as well but from what I understand Nordica's offset is measured from the heel. I will be picking the boots up when I got to Vermont this coming weekend.

 

That's a nice boot. How wide are your feet? It's going to take some punching and grinding unless you have really narrow feet. They're going to be a bit on the cold side, too.

[Bobert540]

My foot is really narrow that is why I needed the 95 last. I may end up with some boot heaters if it gets unbearable on the really cold days.

[trtaylor]

My foot is really narrow that is why I needed the 95 last. I may end up with some boot heaters if it gets unbearable on the really cold days.

 

I have the Dobermann Pro 130's and they haven't been as cold as I was prepared for. But, my liners are a bit beefier than yours.

 

A big help will be having the boots warm before you even put them on. And you can then use a "bootglove" to help hold that heat in while you ski. They do make heated boot bags, but they are kind of expensive. A cheap route is to get some of those corn bags you heat up in the microwave. Throw them inside the boot shells (liners out) while you drive to the hill. Presto, toasty warm shells.

[Ski]

And you can then use a "bootglove" to help hold that heat in while you ski.

 

Ah, no, sorry...no bootglove for Bob...people get picked on and sometimes beaten up for wearing them and we need him to race.

 

BTW, TR, do you have plans to do more racing this season? It kinda sounds like you've dabbled in the addiction...

[trtaylor]

Ah, no, sorry...no bootglove for Bob...people get picked on and sometimes beaten up for wearing them and we need him to race.

 

BTW, TR, do you have plans to do more racing this season? It kinda sounds like you've dabbled in the addiction...

Yeah, am planning to do the Blue Wednesday morning adult clinic (6 weeks) and run some more NASTAR this year.

[Ski]

Yeah, am planning to do the Blue Wednesday morning adult clinic (6 weeks) and run some more NASTAR this year.

Cool...be sure to post how Blue's adult clinic is.

[Bobert540]

Well I finally got a pair of boots. I ended up with the Nordica Dobermann Aggressor 130 WC. Hopefully I can get out on them this week. My legs are beat from the Race coach clinic at Sugarbush. Trying to keep up with A.J. Kitt and Doug Lewis is a workout lol. I will have to post up a trip report.