Burton ... a Love/Hate relationship

[method9455]

Does anyone else out there have a love hate relationship with Burton like I do? They dump more money into funding a great core riding team including up and comers and women than anyone else - they are even better than Forum of the late 90's Technical Difficulties/The Resistance years. They put a lot of money behind the olympic team and their training. They run great ads, and support a lot of videos and magazines. They are innovative with their cap strap (I know tech nine did it too), the fusion binding (good idea, didn't work out), the e.s.t binding (good idea, still hasn't quite worked out), their insert patterns (if only they hadn't patented it, it would be the industry standard), the SI bindings (again didn't work out), infinity ride (pre-decambering of boards at the factory) and the mainstreaming of aluminum honeycomb in boards. Those are just recent innovations. Plus their boots and bindings have a host more. Not to mention it is rider owned, from way back, and still independent. Who else can we say that about? Rome, Arbor, GNU/Lib (although isn't Mervin owned by someone), 32 & Grenade? Certainly not Atomic, K2, Ride, Salomon. We could say it about Forum until they went backrupt - and Burton bought them to save the brand.

 

So yea it all sounds rosy right? I ride around on a Jeremey Jones with Missions, Anon goggles, a Red helmet with nasty speakers, and an AK jacket, I walk to class every day with an AK backpack (which is PIMP). I'm practically a Burton whore. But how did I end up with all that stuff? Jeremy Jones was $50 used 1 day, another guy at the shop got it for $120 on a pro-form and didn't like it. Missions where $50 on pro form, Figments where $25, helmet was $30, jacket was $200, backpack was $50. I bought every single piece of gear because Burton throws pro-forms around like they are candy on halloween, and either I got it directly off pro-form, or bought it used from someone who got it from originally from a Burton proform.

 

If I had a choice I have a list of 5-10 boards I'd rather have before I even mention a Burton. Give me a Arbor Mystic, A Frame, a Rome Anthemn or Agent, another GNU Altered Genetics, or any Lib Tech with magne traction, or a Ride DH, or a K2 Willy Yillie or Zepplin. Then you get to Burton and I'd take the Malolo or Custom X or Jussi, but thats about it.

 

As for bindings, I'll take Ride, Rome, Salomon or Flow before Burton.

 

And for boots Salomon, 32, K2 and Ride are more comfortable, except for the Hail which is decent.

 

I won't complain about the price premium, everyone knows you pay 20-30% more for the Burton stuff. But it is because they are throwing $5,000 to people poaching MGR and Alta, and sponsoring over 40 riders, and every video of the year. I appreciate that, and it thats why I buy a lot of accessories from them. If someone is going to make $5 off a T-shirt will it be Ride or Burton? Burton every time. If someone is going to make $30 off googles do I recommend Anon or Oakley? Oakley is showing up to the party with a name from sunglasses and not much that makes it worth the cash. Or helmets, recommend a ski brand or Burton? Burton every time. But boards, bindings, boots, I rarely recommend anything. People come in asking for it, but everyone who doesn't know, I will sell them everything but. I see Burton as the 2nd from the bottom at our store, only Ride boards are worse. And only k2 bindings are worse (but we dropped them, so now burton is), and boots, they are worst.

 

Why can't burton match their quality to their image?

 

I destroyed the Missions twice, never doing anything out of the order, just hardware stripping issues that should NEVER happen. Sure they replaced it, but it shouldn't have broke in the first place. The Jeremy Jones is fine, but it is just kind of heavy with not enough pop to be great in the park, but too much stiffness to really butter and press like my older park board, it is fun and for $50 it was great, but not for $499. I'm hoping to break it ASAP so I can have a reason to buy something else. It rides ok in the park and ok out but nothing like my arbor or gnu boards. Thats basically how everyone feels about their boards, they are fine all mountain but none of them excel anywhere else. The only people raving about burton boards are riding the T6 which is a very special beast. Anyone riding a vapor and says they love it strikes me as a bad snowboarder - even the Burton rep told us to sell that to the guy with a rolex, a porsche, and a small dick. Keir rocks it because he can get it for free, but you can't tell me you would drop $700 on a board as soft as the Air, when for that money you could get a t6, a custom x, a gnu altered genetics, or any other board on the wall.

 

Wow, long rant, but seriously burton WHAT THE HELL. I want to love your gear but I can't, it is all crap.

[Dan-]

You sound exactly like me. I have a whole slue of Burton gear, but as of lately in the past few years i've been fading away from burton. As there quality goes down and there prices go up. I've got 2 aK jackets, ak pants, ak pack, 2 pairs of figs, Hails, a Custom, and P1's. Ronin pants, burton 3l pants, a T6, and a R.E.D helmet.

 

I agree with you on the aspect that they are putting a ton of money into the sport which i think is awesome. I just wish they'd put some of that money back into their product instead of outsourcing and getting their boards made in China.. I do like there contest of who can produce the best video of themselves poaching 1 of the 4 ski resorts that still don't allow snowboarding. I think thats awesome.

 

The only reason im currently on a T6 is because i got it cheap. There is no way i'd pay 800 for it. It's a sick board, but worth 800? no way. Honestly i'd rather have a Neversummer, and that is coming next, but like you, im gonna ride my board until it's dead.

[Mixilplix]

I hear what your saying...but I've had zero problems with my Burton boots and bindings.I did have some problems with there boards in the early nineties but as of late they have all been good.I like to ride the whole mountain,not just one part of it and my custom does just fine.My other boards are Libs and I really do like them better than my Burtons.And before you say I don't ride a lot I'm out on the snow five to six days a week.

I buy Burton cause I get a proform every year.Like you I'm a walking billboard for Burton.I don't have mad$$$$ so I must look for the best deals when I shop.I can't afford a new Lib every year but I can with Burton.

I find the Burton soft goods(clothing) to be great products.A lot of the colors/patterns/design is not my style but the build quality is tops.

Burton is the only company I know that puts so much into snowboarding.From product R&D,to team support,to rider support,to the LTR program, I can't think of any other company that does so much for the sport.

I've heard other people say the same thing as you about Burton,but I've also hear people say they love there boards.The Burton name is a "status" symbol to some people for sure.But to say someone is a bad snowboarder cause they ride a certain board doesn't seem right.It doesn't matter what you ride as long as what you ride puts a smile on your face when your out on the snow.

Did you ever think about talking to them about the problems you've been having with your stuff?

I guess my relationship is on the love side right now.

[librider]

Ive personally Broken 2 pairs of burton binders and know many many many people who have broken their boards and bindings. I refuse to ride their boards and bindings. Right now Im rocking a pair of 5 year old customs that have 3 different straps on them because my other binders are seized onto my other board that broke.

 

Three thumbs down to burton!

[stevePSSC]

i hate burton bindings with a PASSION! i've had only 2 burton boards, both dominants, and the first one i snapped the tail and the one im riding now (2yrs old) im hoping it will make it through this season cause im BROKE haha but once i get a new board ill be saying goodbye to burton

 

 

oh and i forgot to mention im rockin my Drake Mikey LeBlanc's from 03'.. yeah thats right 2003 and nothing has EVER broke on them i love my drake bindings

Edited December 4, 2007 by brtndominant

[Dan-]

You got lucky then, i've heard of alot of drakes breaking.

[Schif]

I had one pair of burton bindings and will never go back. The straps broke a few times, it was a generally weak design for what I paid and during normal riding I had a highback straight up snap off Absolute junk bindings If it wasn't one problem it was another. I got new K2s and have never looked back.

[method9455]

See, everyone here with all the gear got it off pro-forms. It seems everyone who is new to the sport and/or doesn't know much about the products but sees the name alot, or is a brand whore, gets burton, but after you can get to the point where you can feel the difference between boards/bindings/boots you move away from them.

 

Some people LOVE their bindings, good for them. Mine broke something really simple, it was a screw threaded into a little backing washer. So the bolt had 3 threads in there, and it just stripped and then I didn't have a strap. At the time I was standing on the middle of a mountain in Canada in about -10 degree weather and a long way to go to the bottom or the top, maybe 1500 feet down or 700 up. What the hell do you do? I ended up riding riding switch with my back (normally front) foot out. Try learning switch one foot for the first time on ice in bitter wind and you'll end up hating burton.

 

The this is they DO dump a bunch of money into R&D, but on new technology (which helps the industry) but not refining the normal stuff. It costs a lot more to design the fusion binding and the manufactoring of it all than it does to put lock nuts instead of thin washers on the Mission binding, but thats where they put their money. And then me as a rider get a bad day on the mountain with their product - while I never got to benefit from the Fusion. It sucks, you want to like innovation but they need more refinement.

 

Their soft goods, goggles, and helmets are all leading though. Regular burton shells like the system 3/2 and their pants are a GREAT deal for the money. An uninsulated shell with 10/10 waterproof and air proof or more will change the way you ride if you have thick insulated jackets or are trying to layer with crappy shells, suddenly you have 1/2 as many layers on and you have so much more mobility.

[Tyler]

I only ride a jeremy jones because it was free. i would much rather be riding an agent or something but i have to admit I like the jeremy jones but would never consider paying for one. I also have to admit i have a bunch of burton stuff that i like but cant ever justify paying full price for. overall, i would say method you nailed it with your first post, love/hate relationship it is.

[nick malozzi]

I rock a burton dominant with burton custom bindings and i'm not a huge fan of the board. my next stick will without a doubt be a never summer. i can't knock the burton bindings though. however, i tend to stay away from all the new tech they put out until i've seen it in use at least 3-4 seasons. they do dump a lot of money into new tech, but i think they also rush a lot of it out into the market so they can paten it and then fix the kinks later.

 

back to the bindings though... on my old board i have a pair of synchro's from i think 02 and they are still working like the day i bought them. nothing has broken, the only problem with them is the teeth on the straps are getting a bit rounded. so occasionally the will pop loose. not surprising though for a binding that is 5 years old, and has been used and abused. when i got my dominant i had no desire to even look at any other bindings, i was just gonna buy a new pair of synchros. they stopped making them though so i got customs which are (after getting them home and comparing them) the exact same binding. I upgraded them with the toe straps once i got a chance to talk to a few people about how the toe straps were working out, and i love those bindings.

 

i think a big thing with burton is just waiting to see what tech works, and what doesn't. don't just go out and buy the new thing for the season until you've seen it in action, and know it stands up to what you want to put it through. i think just like every company, they have a few good products and a few bad. nobody can really say that any one brand is terrible all together. they all have a handful of products that are bad, good, and great. you just have to take the time to research what is out there, and what is going to work for your style of riding.

[method9455]

I'm with you on waiting for the new tech. Luckily there are alot of guys in the 24-33 range who are at $50,000 a year jobs just out of college and are single and have no idea what to do with all the money so they buy a lot of snowboarding gear every year, and they are gear heads, so dropping $300 for a fancy new pair of bindings isn't a big deal. We see it at work all the time, we sell every bit of the crazy new burton gear before christmas, often by thanksgiving. I bet it will be tough to get E.S.T. anything by christmas. Thats good, but definitely not for me when I'm scraping by at 10-14 an hour.

[Tyler]

how'd you get a jeremey jones for free?

warranty on my burton twin. i like the jeremy jones better anyway. but if they didnt warranty it i definetly wasnt buying another burton.

[burton71]

For all the people knocking Burton's reliabity from either personal experience or word of mouth they really don't see the whole picture. I have databases full of data here at work that puts Burton at or near the top in customer satisfaction and product reliability. Does that mean their products don't break? Not at all, but all companies products do. You tend to hear about issues with Burton more because of the size of their client base. Which when you stop and think that they have the largest client base as well as one of the best reliability records in the business that really says something about them.

 

Another thing to remember is a lot of snowboarders just don't like Burton because they are the big dog in the business. So they talk a lot of smack when in reality they have no or very little experience with the brand. This goes way back with people hating just to hate.

 

I do have to laugh at the one poster above who said that Burton bindings are junk and that they switched to K2s. K2 has a record of making some of the worst bindings (reliability wise) in the business.

 

It is one thing to not like a board and its another for a board to be junk. I ride and test between 40-60 different models ever year, its is very easy to tell a good board from a bad one. Its is very hard to tell the difference between two good boards other then your personal prefence. For instance I dislike how the Agent rides and feels and have stapped the tail on more then one...does that make it junk...no, it is still a very good board.

 

Thats really my point, it all comes down to personal preference, and for me after riding just about everthing out there, the gear that I own is almost all Burton.

[adrian]

i disagree with you in that, without a doubt, burton makes solid goods. however, people thinking burton is tops in every category are sadly mistaken and common. as for the price gouging, i agree that burton is an offender, but you cant blame them for charging what the market is willing to pay. i would never pay the often ridiculous retail price on butron goods, and proforms and other discounts keep it that way.

[burton71]

however, people thinking burton is tops in every category are sadly mistaken and common.

They are tops in customer satisfaction and product reliablity. This isn't my opinion either, this is fact based on tons of data gathered over the years.

 

I do agree on the Burton gear being expensive, but they have to fund their R&D which is a huge amount of money.

[Mixilplix]

I do agree on the Burton gear being expensive, but they have to fund their R&D which is a huge amount of money.

 

They also have to fund the LTR program and the Chill program.I don't know of any other company that does so much for the sport.

There is a lot to be said for checking your equipment before you ride.I've lost strap and highback nuts and bolts while out riding a couple of times.Do I blame Burton for that? No, I blame myself for not checking my bindings before going out.